Scrap Yard Discussion Forums

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Piston 5.56 Rifles #1038877 03/17/16 04:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,889
Endeavour Morse Offline OP
Junk Yard Dog
OP Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,889
I have a great problem: I can't decide which of my 5.56 piston carbines should be "go to" in an emergency. Each design has positive and negative attributes.

Bushmaster ACR

Positive Attributes

+ Hammer forged free floating barrel with 20k service life;
+ Side folding stock;
+ Durable stock design with maximum adjustment capabilities;
+ Monolithic upper rail (not really a benefit, but some like it);
+ (Ambi) Reciprocating charging handle with "real" forward assist capability;
+ Effective flash suppressor;
+ Ease of bolt group disassembly;
+ Multiple QD sling ports.

Negative Attributes

- Factory BUIS are PLASTIC;
- Two position adjustable gas is only for "regular" and "suppressor" use. An "adverse setting" does not exist;
- Rifle is HEAVY and unbalanced feeling;
- Rifle lacks extensive military testing;
- Safety feels "mushy" and is not positive.

FN Scar-16S

Positive Attributes

+ Extensively tested by US Military;
+ Hammer forged free floating barrel with 20k service life;
+ Side folding stock;
+ Monolithic upper rail (not really a benefit, but some like it);
+ (Ambi) Reciprocating charging handle with "real" forward assist capability;
+ Light weight;
+ Effective muzzle brake;
+ Ease of bolt group disassembly;
+ Multiple sling ports.

Negative Attributes

- Chrome lined bore (I've grown to prefer nitrided bores);
- Rear BUIS does not lock into up position;
- Removing gas piston (after extensive firing) is difficult;
- Plastic stock latch is prone to break;
- Non standard (read: AR15) trigger components (not an issue as I have a spare set + a Geissele Super Scar);
- Non standard sling ports are prone to wear with HK style hooks and therefore require unconventional attachment solutions;
- Buttstock has nice adjustable cheek weld, but polymer feels very flimsy;
- Two position adjustable gas is only for "regular" and "suppressor" use. An "adverse setting" does not exist.

LWRC M6 Individual Carbine - Enhanced

Positive Attributes

+ Hammer forged free floating spiral fluted barrel with 20k service life;
+ Barrel weight is 20% lighter than unfluted of same diameter;
+ All gas components are NiCorr treated.
+ Unlimited pistol grip options (AR15);
+ Unlimited stock options (AR15);
+ Monoforge upper provides enough "receiver" rail for RDS and magnifier;
+ Ambi charging handle is enhanced with superior construction and oversized pivot pins;
+ HIGLY effective tuned flash suppressor;
+ Ease of bolt group disassembly;
+ Fail Zero coated BCG adds lubricity and is easy to clean;
+ 100% ambi lower (bolt release; mag release; safety);
+ 9" free float handguard system that allows user to install rail sections were needed;
+ Factory BUIS are best on market;
+ Multiple QD sling ports;
+ Lightweight for rifle with mid-heavy barrel.

Negative Attributes

- Two position adjustable gas is only for "regular" and "suppressor" use. An "adverse setting" does not exist;
- Factory trigger is awful;
- Rifle did not pass the military's Individual Carbine tests (neither did the HK 416...).

POF P-15 Minuteman

Positive Attributes

+ Hammer forged barrel with 20k service life;
+ All gas components are nitride treated or stainless;
+ Unlimited pistol grip options (AR15);
+ Unlimited stock options (AR15);
+ Charging handle is reinforced and easy to manipulate;
+ Ease of bolt group disassembly;
+ Fail Zero coated BC and chrome add lubricity and are easy to clean;
+ Roller cam pin reduces wear on the receiver, and makes operation very smooth;
+ E2 extraction technology (simple description: modified and IMPROVED HK fluting) works amazingly well for such a simple concept - all 5.56 rifles should use this tech;
+ Amazingly crisp 4.5# factory trigger group;
+ Gas piston system is essential FAL and easiest of all four designs to disassemble.

Negative Attributes

- Three position adjustable gas is only for "regular" and "suppressor" and "off" use. An "adverse setting" does not exist;
- Rifle does not include BUIS (however the front BUIS mounts on the gas block which is a positive attribute);
- Rifle is limited to MagPul "MOE" midlength handguard owing to the gas piston design;
- Rifle lacks extensive military testing.

Here's a summary analysis...

Bushmaster ACR

This rifle had unlimited potential, but Bushmaster's "engineers" (I use this term exceedingly loosely) were unable to capitalize on Magpul's vision. From everything I've read, the Remington Defense version addresses the issues I have with this gun:

1) Its way to front heavy. The QD barrel and stupid M4 profile added to this problem.

2) The rifle is too heavy overall. Remington's revised rails system and "ultra light" allow lower should help.

3) The safety is plastic and not positive. Remington uses an allow lower, and hopefully metal safety components.

All of this is academic, because I have the Bushmaster version and the RD version is not available to civilians.

FN Scar-16S

This is clearly a rifle designed for special operations troops. It has great pedigree (its FN) and is manufactured by a company I trust (again, FN). However, owing to the need for lightweight construction I worry about the durability of the buttstock assembly. Additionally, why not add 0.01 ounce of weight and have a locking rear sight? The front sight has a complex locking mechanism.

LWRC M6 Individual Carbine - Enhanced

This is likely the finest evolution of the AR15 design to date. It addresses virtually every concern I've had with AR15s. The factory trigger group is AWFUL, but this is easily remedied. I have a Geissele SSA-E in mine.

POF P-15 Minuteman

I feel like this AR15 is someone's attempt at combining DI AR15 accuracy with FAL or even AK simplicity and reliability. The net result is a simple to operate, highly accurate, and 100% reliable rifle. It lacks customization capability, but for someone wanting a KISS Piston AR this is definitely a "best buy".


Last edited by Architect; 03/17/16 04:10 PM.

JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: Piston 5.56 Rifles [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1038882 03/17/16 06:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,736
gun dog Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,736
I'd probably go scar or LWRC but I've got limited experience with booth. There are some kits that allow for a different stock on the scar.


Any day I'm above the grass and I'm not a zombie is a good day! JYD#138

Re: Piston 5.56 Rifles [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1038883 03/17/16 07:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,889
Endeavour Morse Offline OP
Junk Yard Dog
OP Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,889
The ACR is definitely out of the running. The POF is just second to the LWRC in the piston AR realm.

It's really a debate between the Scar and LWRC.

I change my mind daily, but think extended testing will prove one over the other.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: Piston 5.56 Rifles [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1038884 03/17/16 11:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,736
gun dog Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,736
Yeah. I wish I had those guns to test lol


Any day I'm above the grass and I'm not a zombie is a good day! JYD#138

Re: Piston 5.56 Rifles [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1038887 03/18/16 01:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,098
greaser Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,098
Adams arms? I have loved mine and minor non-government spec parts is a big plus to me.


JYD#176
"dein Gott schickte mich zu zerstören"
"Sic semper evello mortem Tyrannis"
"Sometimes the chance of a zombie outbreak is the only reason I need to make many of my life's Decisions." General Delivery
Re: Piston 5.56 Rifles [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1038892 03/18/16 01:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 116,137
SkunkHunter Online Content
Junk Yard Dog
Online Content
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 116,137
Gary, what is your take on a box stock Colt AR15A3 with the carbine length barrel (can't remember the model number but I've had it for 15+years).


A Little Paranoia Will Keep
You Safe (ALPWKYS)

Be a Sheepdog
JYD#105
Re: Piston 5.56 Rifles [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1038896 03/18/16 07:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,889
Endeavour Morse Offline OP
Junk Yard Dog
OP Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,889
Randy,
I'm moving away from DI altogether. One niece and one nephew just returned from Army Basic. We asked them to document the number of failures their issue M16A2s experienced. One had 9 difficult to clear and the other stop counting.

Granted these are worn out basic training rifles that get disassembled by newbs, but the rifles loosening up should actually INCREASE reliability. The AK is sloppy and Works as a result. It is designed to be loose, but the point stands.

If I were going to chose a DI rifle it would be a Colt 16" lightweight (like the 6520 with fixed sights or 6720 ...preferred...with "flattop" so I could mount an Aimpoint T-1...4oz RDS) or a BCM MidLength with Aimpiont CompM4S.

The BCM would be my preferred choice.

IIRC you have a 16" heavy barrel without flash suppressor. The weight of the HBAR is a waste, and sans FH is a no go for me.

It would be easy to have your department armour to swap out the barrel for a Colt LW or BCM ML. You'd be go-to-go (for a DI) then.

BTW - your Colt has non mil standard FCG parts (pin diameter is larger as is the corresponding hammer, Disconnector and trigger). If a replacement is needed you'll have to find old Colt parts. Colt started using standard around serial number LE63000 on their LE marked guns and now uses them in all.


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: Piston 5.56 Rifles [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1038897 03/18/16 07:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,889
Endeavour Morse Offline OP
Junk Yard Dog
OP Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,889
Randy, you could be much worse off. If you asked about an Armalite, Bushmaster, DPMS, Rock River, Smirh & Wesson, etc....


JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Re: Piston 5.56 Rifles [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1038898 03/18/16 08:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 116,137
SkunkHunter Online Content
Junk Yard Dog
Online Content
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 116,137
I'll have to check on the model number etc. later on today when We get back home. It IS a flat top model.

Department Armorer? What's that. Seriously, we don't have ANYONE that does anything like that "IN HOUSE".

Each Deputy is allowed to purchase their own handgun. Right now the Boys are running 9mm, 40S&W and 45acp.

The DEPARTMENT has issued 12ga pumps (mossburg?) and milsurp M16's. IF (Ok WHEN) a department weapon needs working on it goes to one of the local self taught "Smith" locally.


A Little Paranoia Will Keep
You Safe (ALPWKYS)

Be a Sheepdog
JYD#105
Re: Piston 5.56 Rifles [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1038903 03/18/16 01:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,736
gun dog Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,736
Dang you must live in the sticks Randy lol


Any day I'm above the grass and I'm not a zombie is a good day! JYD#138

Re: Piston 5.56 Rifles [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1038912 03/19/16 01:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 116,137
SkunkHunter Online Content
Junk Yard Dog
Online Content
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 116,137
You could say that Mike. We have 32 employees. That is Deputies, jailers, dispatch AND office workers, everyone! We only have SEVEN deputies!


A Little Paranoia Will Keep
You Safe (ALPWKYS)

Be a Sheepdog
JYD#105
Re: Piston 5.56 Rifles [Re: Endeavour Morse] #1038921 03/19/16 10:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,889
Endeavour Morse Offline OP
Junk Yard Dog
OP Offline
Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,889
Randy,
You could put one of CDNN's $799 LWRC M6A2 with Flip Sight uppers on your Colt lower.

$699 without sights
$799 with sights

$100 for a SET of LWRC's remarkable Skirmish Sights makes the $799 deal even better. I've paid $200 a set for them.

The M6A2 is a self regulated piston system with free floating quad rail and 20,000 round service life hammer forged barrel.

Sell your Colt upper for $350-$400 and have a M A S S I V E upgrade for $400-$450 net.

Last edited by Architect; 03/19/16 10:25 AM.

JYD #123 The great one formerly known as Architect.

I am now a fictional British television police officer (currently a Detective Sgt) at Thames Valley Station. My governor is Detective Inspector Fred Thursday and it’s 1969.





Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3