I noticed in the description of the Scrapper 6 that they used "deep cryogenics". Do they do this with all their knives or just the scrapper 6 (and what's the point of the coating if it's cryo treated)? Also, how well does SR77 respond to cryo treament?

Welcome to the Yard!

I don't really have any of the answers you're looking for, other than "yes," Dan treats all of his SR77 the same.

I haven't had any rust issues.

I'm sure that someone will be able to help you a little more, I just wanted to say "welcome" and that you will absolutely love Scrapyard blades - if you don't already have one.

Cryo-treated Tools - Why They're Better
By: Andrew Swan

You've probably heard the big claims about Cryogenic treatment and have probably been wondering if it really makes a difference. That's because Cryogenic treatment has had mixed to downright bad reviews in the shooting community.

When cryo-treated barrels were first introduced, you would have thought someone discovered the magic cure-all for perfect shots . . . that we’d be seeing groupings at a thousand yards you could cover with a silver dollar easily. Unfortunately, results didn't live up to the expectations or the hype.

But it's a much different story when it comes to Cryo-treated tools. Cryo-treated tools won't make you a master gunsmith, but your cryogenically treated tools will last longer – saving you money in the long run. Cryo-treatment has three main benefits:

increases dimensional stability
removes stress
improves wear and abrasive resistance
How does Cryogenic Treatment Work?
Cryogenics is a one-time, irreversible treatment that permanently changes the entire molecular structure of the material being treated, not just the surface, creating a denser molecular structure, resulting in a smoother contact surface area that reduces friction, heat, and wear.

There are two types of Cryo-treatments - deep treatment and shallow treatment. The deep treatment process involves the slow cooling of materials to temperatures of approximately -300° F and then slowly re-heating them to varying temperatures, depending on the material. This is much preferred over the shallow treatment, which only cools the material to -120° F and does not give the full range of cryogenic treatment benefits to the material.

One of the big challenges with cryo-treatment is that you can’t tell what’s been treated and what hasn’t by examining the tool. But, as they say, “beauty is more than skin deep.” What you can’t see will make a significant difference. Cryogenic treatment dramatically increases the tool’s durability and wear resistance. Internal residual stresses are released and result in increased tensile strength, toughness and stability.

Real Life Uses. Real Life Results.
Using cryo-treated tools can reduce perishable tooling costs by as much as 25% to 30%! Machine downtime and maintenance costs can also be dramatically reduced, increasing productivity and lowering production costs. Treated tools typically increase production by two to four times compared to non-treated tools, and treated components may be ground after treatment and the benefits of cryo-treatment are retained.

Cryo-treated tools may be re-ground more times before falling below minimum acceptable specifications than non-treated tools. Cryo-treated tools require less removal of material to restore the cutting edge, thus extending the life of the cutting tool.

Polartek Cyrogenics reported to Brownells that one of their customers, a pork packing plant, came to them for help in reducing the cost of replacing saw blades used in processing meat. The chart below shows the results of three different blades.

Blade Type # Hrs use before treatment # Hrs use after treatment

13" Circular 6 with 5 sharpenings 36 with 5 sharpenings

18" Circular 640 with 4 sharpenings 2400 with 4 sharpenings

Serrated Cut Off 6 with 5 sharpenings 30 with 5 sharpenings



Annual projected savings for these three blades alone is a whopping $123,256! This is just one example from one customer, but the research shows that this is not a statistical fluke – cryo-treated tools last longer and save money.

It is true that cryo-treated tools cost more than untreated tools, but the cost difference is more than made up in tool life and increased production. Cryo-treated tools will be less likely to give you an uneven cut due to their molecular hardness, resulting in smooth, professional cuts the first time.

Now at this point, you may be saying, “Sounds great, but how can this help my gun shop’s bottom line?” Let’s turn to an expert, one of Brownell’s gun technicians Mike Watkins. According to Mike, cryo-treated gunsmithing tools DO live up to the hype.

“I was installing a Novak rear sight on a hard slide and the 3/8 inch end mill for the initial flat cut was better than the results I have been getting with carbide.” Mike goes on to say, “The cryo-treated .495 dovetail cutter cut easily and smoother than I expected, as the slide was so hard that a file would barely cut it. I have been testing cryo-treated mill cutters, drills, and taps and have seen an increase in life expectancy and performance.”

Cyro-treated tools may give you the “edge” that you are looking for. Longer periods between sharpenings, easier cutting on hard metal, longer tool life, and reduced tool cost are a few of the benefits of using cryo-treated tools. The chart below compares shallow treatment performance gains vs. the deep treatment performance gains.

Cryogenic Tempering - Documented Gains For All Types Of Metals

AISI # Description of steel (-110 F) (-310 F)

D-2 High carbon/chromium die steel 316% 817%

A-2 Chromium cold work die steel 204% 560%

S-7 Silicon tool steel 241% 503%

52100 Bearing steel 195% 420%

O-1 Oil hardening cold work die steel 221% 418%

A-10 Graphite tool steel 230% 264%

M-1 Molybdenum high speed steel 145% 225%

H-13 Chromium/moly hot die steel 164% 209%

M-2 Tungsten/moly high speed steel 117% 203%

T-1 Tungsten high speed steel 141% 176%

P-20 Mold steel 123% 130%

440 Martensitic stainless 128% 121%

430 Ferritic stainless 116% 119%

303 Austenitic stainless 105% 110%

8620 Nickel-chromium-moly steel 112% 104%

C1020 Carbon steel 97% 98%

AQS Graphite cast iron 96% 97%

A-6 Manganese air work cold die steel 73% 97%

T-2 Tungsten high speed steel 72% 92%

Source: Dr. R.F. Barron, Louisiana Tech University



Brownells will soon be offering a selection of cryo-treated tools that are treated at -320?FS, which provides the most improved tool performance in the industry. We’re in the process of creating a way to mark the tools so you’ll be able to tell your cryo-treated tools from your untreated tools.

Watch for them in the near future; you're going to love the results.


http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?p=0&t=1&i=478

As to how well SR77 takes to the treatment - I have severely beaten my Dogfather - and it is holding up 100%.

Bottom line you get these three things.

1. increases dimensional stability
2. removes stress
3. improves wear and abrasive resistance

Welcome to the Yard! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> All their knives receive their proprietary heat treat and cryogenic treatment. The crinkle coating is for several reasons. It protects the knife from rusting for less maintenance, and also keeps the cost down by having less finishing time that it would take to polish a blade. For an example of what these knives can do, see these links:

Final Dog Father Test Pics! . . . . Wow!!!

Here’s a link to some pics and videos of what SR-77 can do. It’s not a Scrap Yard product, but it’s a sister company (Swamp Rat) and it’s of the same steel and heat treat to show what SR-77 can accomplish.

Horizon Hood Crash Axe Test (pics & video)

I don't know for sure, but I don't think the Cryo treatment has much to do with corrosion resistance. but it is very possiable I am dead wrong.

By the way, Welcome to The Yard silverdragon.

Welcome silverdragon.

Welcome to the Yard!

Welcome to the yard Silverdragon

Thanks everyone, that was quite informative. Yeah, I knew in general higher carbon steels are affected more by cryo treatment than anything, and it does provide MUCH greater corrosion resistance.

Welcome to the Yard bro!!!