the allure of intoxication goes back to the beginning of man and it doesnt just stop with humans.animals have been known to seek intoxicating plants in nature.

money has been the root to all evil since money was created.
what im saying is that when you intertwine the two together you end up with one hell of a beast.call me pessimistic but i dont see a full solution.no civilization in human history that i know of has been able to conquer addiction and greed.i have many ideas but no answers.

with that said....jeeps,im sorry for your loss and the turmoil you and your family has had to go through.

all arguments aside it seems to me that this meth epidemic is in a league of its own and gives the words"drug problem" a whole new meaning.as strange as it sounds iv always been able to deal and handle the crack heads,heroin junkys and drunks,but this stuff is scary.

my son is 7yrs old but will be a teenager in the blink of an eye.i swear i will beat him to death before i let that stuff kill him.it hasnt hit my area yet like the rest of the country but i know its only a matter of time.that crap is some scary stuff

I just want to say how much I respect the people here for being able to have such
a good discussion on such a divisive topic without letting it get into the internet version of a screaming match that happens so often on other sites.
I may disagree with Takmar but I respect the way he can make his points without devolving into the kind of petty mudslinging that ios the reason most of us avoid topics like these other places. I get the feeling here that people are actually listening and not just waiting their turn to talk.


Jeeps I find it hard to put into words how much your story touched me. It is one of the most genuine and heartfelt things I have ever read on the internet and I hope that being able to share it with us helps in some way.

Northern ,it must be a scary time to be raising a child! But having your kids use drugs is not the end of the world any more than having a beer automatically turns you into a rubby bum willing to drink listerine and pass out in the gutters. Most kids try drugs and most kids handle it just fine. Telling them that they are a write off and throwing them out just makes it a self fullfiling prophecy. If you love your kids ,teach them to be responsible and have pride in themselves and their accomplishments then their won't be a hole in their lives for drugs to fill.

I know of no other forum where such "hot button" subjects are discussed with reason, compassion, and intelligence. Makes me honored to be a dog in the yard.

Absolutely bro!! That is exactly the reason I so rarely voice my opinions on many things, because the the pure emotion that it so often stirs up. It is nice to be able to give my opinion, you give yours, and we both are able respect one another for that opinion. On that note, I want to thank you for sticking with this conversation, and giving your point of view. I was not aware that the Netherlands had no drug monitoring, I will look into that, and see if it changes my view.

As for the welfare. I agree that many people work for self respect, but I know there has to be a tipping point where someone gets tired of their money going to lazy people. What happens is as those getting government funding have kids they get more money, since the vast majority of children born into the welfare system STAY on the welfare system, and are not monitored when it comes to producing more offspring, the population grows exponentially. Now, the working man's taxes continue to go up (to pay for the increasing welfare population) to the point that he will limit his offspring to the amount he can take care of, so the working families that try and instill a good work ethic in their children, dwindles. I can tell you that most people on the welfare system never get off, and their children grow up thinking that is simply the way to live. We have all seen it in New Orleans post Katrina. There are still people on the welfare system wanting to know when the government is going to get them back to their previous lives. Instead of getting a job, and trying to help themselves, they continue to cry about how no one is helping them. I really have no room for people who intentionally do not contribute to this society.

Jeeps, what you wrote about your brother and family was truly touching. It is amazing how many people have been personally touched by drugs. If not family members whose lives have been destroyed, friends who are gone in one sense or another.

I am sorry to hear of your brother's death Jeeps.

You know, I am all for allowing those who can contribute to this society come in, as long as it is done legally, the way OUR laws ask. But when you have the President of Mexico, actually WANTING his citizens to leave, something is very wrong. Click here for the article.

Jeeps, I too wish to thank you taking the time and courage to post about your brother. I have been very fortunate to never have had drugs play any role in my immediate family, so I will not even begin to try and understand how it affects someone. I do however have a young daughter, and I can only hope that I will be able to raise her to never feel the need to even try drugs. As fun as drugs may be for some, I am confident that I can show my children a large number of things that will be just as fun, but with no possible consequences. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />

My heart gose out to thoes who have lost loved ones in the wake of drugs, violence, and alcohol. I hope no one thought my original post fallowed by no comments was an act of trooling. I didn't think this would be such a passionate subject matter.

From as young as I can remember my uncle (My dad's brother) came to visit us every Christmas and a few other times a year, then I was about 12 he stoped comming by, I was simply told he was in and out of addictions and prision. Then I saw him for the first time at my Grandfather's funeral about 10 years after I had last seen him he looked like hell and was only in his mid-40s, last I heard he was at a recovery/work home in Seattle.

I too find the way that people discuss things on this site to be unique. I have yet to find anywhere else online where so many people are genuinely good, helpful and polite.

Thanks for the kind words about my bro gents. I have 2 young boys and my brother’s experience had really changed the way I discuss drugs, gangs and violence with my kids and I discuss these things often with them. The reason I tell my brothers story to people and not try to hide it or be embarrassed is that I truly believe that there can be no change without a hardcore discussion on this topic by society at large. Knowledge is definitley power in this case.

The person who truly got hit the hardest with this was my dad. He is not the same man after this. Neither am I, but he is retired and I believe has too much time on his hands to ponder the what if’s. The what if’s can be downright evil. I spend as much time as I can with him, shooting, buying knives, camping and Jeeping. My kids have also been helpful for him probably more than I will ever know.

I agree that meth is in a league of its own on many levels having spent several years studying the culture and some levels being caught up in it with my brother’s situation. I have helped one addict get back in to real world after having quit meth. He is now an honorable man with a nice family. There is much more I will do to help people who want to be helped.

Not everyone can be saved in any potential solution to the drug epidemic. For reasons we can only theorize about, some people are not able to break away from addiction. It’s a powerful thing.

Sometimes I think it would be easier for people if we still thought people were "possessed" by the devil because at least it would give them a way to understand how perfectly nice normal people can act in a way totally contrary to their nature. Until you have seen how strong a hold hard drugs can have in person you won't really understand. I think meth and coke are actually worse than heroin because they are mentally addictive where heroin is physically addictive. A heroin user gets where a meth or coke user goes insane. Maintenance programs also work much better on heroin users. A heroin addict can have a perfectly normal life so long as they have a steady supply , with the meth user all you can really do is reduce the amount of harm they cause themselves and others.

You're right Jeeps. Nobody can be helped unless they want to be helped.

Some people, it seems to me, are just more prone to chemical dependency, like their systems are out of order. I think I may be one of those people. When undergoing surgery, I enjoy the morphine or demerol drip too much.

Regarding the legalization of drugs, I would like to see the drug trade cleaned up and be able to tax the incomes generated. t would also be nice to be able to cut down on the costs of incarceration for drug offenses. When my brother was struggling with his heroin addiction, I remember he stole everything he could find from my mom and dad. Jewelry, small appliances, tools, etc. He couldn't hold a job. (He later became involved with the Chicago Mob and that was what landed him in prison.) I wonder, if drugs were legalized, how could the addicts afford to pay for them?? If my brother couldn't hold a legit. job, whose to say the addicts with access to lagal drugs could afford them?

Legal drugs are very very cheap compared to illegal drugs. Compare a pound of coffee that comes from the mountains in Columbia to a pound of cocaine from the same mountains in columbia. In most cases opium poppy's and coca leaves are actually easier to grow than food crops because bugs don't attack them.