It would save money on paint stripper and sanding belts, too. I like the idea.

I think it's a great idea, but I don't think I could handle one in a fashion that would make it as uber-durable as SY's res-c. I'm all about saving some money, though and wouldn't mind making my own.

Yeah - what SJ said is what I was trying to express - I don't care about saving a few bucks if I lose any performance - so the ResC must stay for me to be interested.

I can't wait till KnifeGuy sees this thread! I'll agree with him in advance..

(My comment right now would be, in my very limited experience of 'Busse Combat', right now they don't release 'finished' knives. Knives are supposed to be sharp pieces of steel that can cut things.)

If only Busse kin knives were as razor sharp as your dry british wit Paul.

That works.....

Unsub- LOL!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I like the rough and nasty look of that Jack Hammer. Bring it on!

I have seen this thread Paul. And Yes, I assume we do agree on a few things.

I originally posted a comment here on Scrap Yard forums when I first saw about the "Ugly" thread on page 3 of the " Yard Test: S6, M6, ASH-1 Compared " thread.

However, then and now, I have been trying to ..... bite my tongue.
I think it might be best if I continue to bite my tongue to a large degree ….. (if I could), …… but I can’t at least not very well.

I have actually written and deleted responses to this “UGLY – Competition Grade” thread a few times now - fighting myself about whether I should say my opinion or keep my opinions to myself.

It is my nature to want to speak my opinion – and once again, keep in mind this is just my opinion.
But, I do feel strongly about this. Because, I do believe Busse makes some of the best knife “steel” in the industry.
I will have to reserve my comments about best knife in the industry as there are a few improvements left to be had in the "over-all" knife catagory.

Toughness is NOT the only factor in what makes a good knife to me. I don't chop cinder blocks. And I don't use my knives as heavy duty prybars. Yes I believe a knife should be able to handle certain reasonable amounts of torque and prying without breaking or significant damage to edges... But....

Knife design, ergonomics, edge holding ability, ability to sharpen and PRICE have to be factors to me.

Corrosion resistance is sometimes part of the equation. But, usually much lower on my personal list assuming even a modest amount of chromium and corrosion resistance - Although, certain steels just seem to rust too easily - such as 1095, 5160, O-1, and a couple of others that just seem to rust if you blink. All three are good steels, but there are other steels that are better for knives IMO and less prone to rust. *Although, I may be tinkering with a 5160 project here with somebody soon (????) - For a Longer blade beater, spring steel might be the ticket.

Anyway, to me, there are other factors to consider. Lots of variations and price IS a factor.
Time I have to invest in finishing a knife has to be considered as well....

But, especially for INFI, I personally feel the prices are just too high – and even more so because I don’t honestly feel we have been getting “Finished” knives (unless you pay a LOT more....). AWESOME Quality of steel - NO DOUBT! But,not so awesome finish quality – especially considering the prices.

I don’t have any real passion for overly fancy gussied up knives. I appreciate “Art” knives for what they are, but they are not my thing and I am not looking for "Art Knife" levels of finish.
However!!! - I do like at least a basic level of fit and finish.

Scrap Yard has provided a couple of LE models that were sufficiently finished - The LE models. But, I was dissappointed in the $60 up-charge for th DMLE. Or even $50 for the S6.

Unfortunately, Swamp Rat - which is supposed to be higher end than Scrap Yard, hasn't provided a "finished" knife since the Bog Dog, Dog Skinner, Rat Hunter and some others long prior to Scrap Yard's existence. And the only handles with a decent finish quality in recent history were on the RMD in G10. You have to go back to the original Ratweiler (not including the final run) and Rat Mastiff for decent handles prior to the RMD in G10.

I like my knives to have clean grind lines. Busse family of knives usually DOES have very good “Primary” grinds. – So kudos for that.

But, I do like my micarta handles polished and not fuzzy. I admit that Busse’s micarta handles have consistent CNC quality even cuts – impressive. Now if they would just take a couple of minutes to buff off the fuzzies and buff them smooth before attaching them to the blades so they look finished….
Maybe some more contouring would be nice as well.
This should be VERY easy for them to do at the factory, but not so easy for end users to fix after the handles are attached.

I like Res-C for choppers for feel, comfort and shock absorption. But, Res-C should cost less than micarta. It usually does, but ????? Pricing is getting confusing. I am still disappointed that the DMLE cost $60.00 more than the DM and almost twice the price for a satin finish.

Some people here obviously like coatings on their blades. Great - Personal preference and all.
But, I feel we are being trained. I am under the impression that quite a few people like CG finishes because they feel it just saves them a lot of money and they want to save money. While I can appreciate not wanting to spend $60+ to get a satin blade.
Most of the industry provides satin blades with the entire knife still being under $60 or so.
So, I clearly feel there shouldn’t be nearly that much difference in price. I believe it probably is less than $10 in production cost and very likely less than $5 in many cases. I would be willing to pay twice the production cost to allow for profit. $10 - $20 for satin wouldn’t bother me – except when some of the CG models (INFI in particular) are already so HIGH priced.
But, this “LE” term is a marketing gimmick. All LE here at Busse and kin means they are actually “finishing” the blade with a satin finish – that’s it. Wooohooo!

I don’t have a problem with the CG concept – especially since some people like coated and colored blades. But, the situation should be reversed a little. A CG finish should be a slightly discounted blade. As opposed to an “LE” (read: Finished) blade costing so much more. AND "Finished" blades shouldn't cost so much (IMO). But, I am a little in conflict as Scrap Yard in particular was supposed to be cheap and functional. So, I will try not to dwell too much on my frustration about the price of the DMLE and try to keep my comments more focused on the “UGLY Competition Grade” thread where the thread seemed to be more about the already very pricey INFI.

Now we are going to get fed and sold on “Competition Grade” where they will “now” provide a nice functional cutting edge, but on a terribly unfinished and ugly blade!

I do consider a large part of a knives quality based on how well the knife actually “CUTS”.
Yes, Busse’s line of steels can all be made sharp and made to cut. But, (as I have said before) I still feel a company that is charging these prices should take PRIDE in at least attempting to provide their knives with edges at least on par with the industry and hopefully much better than the industry average for sharpness and cutting ability.
AS SHIPPED FROM THE MAKER, quality of sharpness and edge grind/profile should be considered as a standard part of quality control – IMO.

I do think it will be nice that "some" of the newer INFI products "might" be coming with an edge profile more suitable for actually cutting materials and stuff that knives are more commonly used for cutting and comparable to what Jerry actually acknowledges they put on their knives for "destructive testing" - as opposed to the jackhammer chisel edges that we have become so accustomed to using for smashing concrete.

- This might not be so good for those of you who still want to smash concrete. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I don’t know if this Competition Grade concept will be shared with Scrap Yard and Swamp Rat or not. Since I very rarely justify the high cost of INFI anyway, maybe I shouldn’t speak. I don’t know. But, if it did (or does) pertain to me….. I am curious and unfortunately doubtful that Jerry will actually discount this “Competition Grade” especially after his attempt to market “Competition Grade” knives as "NOW" actually being good at cutting…. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Since I would always be looking to strip the coating, this might seem like a good thing. But, removing the coating is cheap, fast and easy. Takes about 5-10 minutes with a chemical stripper. The hard and time consuming part for us non-knifemakers with cheap home equipment is getting rid of the rest of the "UGLY" – especially after the handles are attached. It is WAY easier to satin finish and clean the blade prior to putting on the handles. So, if Competiton Grade comes at a discount - thanks I guess. If Competition Grade doesn’t come at a discount and especially if it costs more – thanks for nothing.

Anyway, congrats to those who are willing to pay and not bothered by INFI prices for a Very functional, very tough hunk of steel that looks like <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" />:




And my hat has to go off to anybody who can get people "Excited" and lined up to buy a product at 3-5 times higher than industry prices when they openly admit and actually go into detail about how “UGLY” their product actually is. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

“We leave behind all of the peen marks, INFI dimples, and anything else that might be there. Sometimes we double cut them before edging. . .sometimes we don't. There is no set criteria as to how ugly these blades can get. . . .

Handles can be a bit rough as well. . . .fit and finish? . . . Uh, probably not gonna find it here kids.

These are beaters of the first degree. . . You'll never have to worry about marring up the finish. . . because we've already done that for you!”

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I think Jerry seems to have taken some pride in “UGLY”. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I couldn’t help but notice he stated the handles may even be rougher than the already standard fuzzy handles. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> And that “There is no set criteria as to how ugly these blades can get. . . .”. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

The sky is apparently the limit on “UGLY”…… great. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Granted, this "UGLY" new product does actually appear to have a SIGNIFICANTLY improved upon feature. The product might come with an edge that would appear well suited as tool to be used for cutting stuff. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />
Ironic, that they would call this proto the Jack Hammer after removing the traditional Jack Hammer edge (???).

For 3-5 times the price of the other cars on the lot, it's like all of the excitement of getting one of the best motors in the industry AND NOW with WHEELS! ..... But, no paint! Oh and the body work is pretty beat, marked and dinged up. And the interior is rough, messed up and stripped down. But, that's OK, with its AWESOME motor and now with wheels it "screams" and you are just going to drive it anyway. What a GREAT user! And at least now you can drive it! Handling is subjective, but it IS FAST and has always been way tougher and more dependable than other cars.

I am truly impressed.
I clearly have a lot to learn about marketing and sales.

I am sorry for being cynical. I really am a big fan and believer that Busse provides some of the best quality "STEEL" in the industry.

INFI is truly amazing stuff.
I really do wish INFI were at a price I could justify. And I also wish, even if at better prices, I was looking at knives that were “finished” up to new knife standards for the industry.... Not including the INFI pieces that appear to be finished at over $500 or so.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I do feel a little sting in that Jerry is admitting he sharpens his “Test” knives intended for "destructive testing" with nice edges that “scream” while having provided end users with (as much as) admittedly lesser quality edges for all this time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

In the end, it always comes down to supply and demand. There are a lot of people who seem very happy with paying top dollar for unfinished knives as long as they are tough.

So, maybe just me.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />

.

To each his own.......

I will agree with the "rough and nasty look" part. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


How I feel about "Bringing" "UGLY" Competition Grade finish will ultimately come down to pricing! I would likely be for it if it came with reasonable savings and pricing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />

But, I don't like CBT! I am confident I won't be for that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" />

.

.

The Busse knives have a virture. They are very, very tough. I like the looks of most of them, too. They are not as finished as some other brands, but Ranger Knives are roughly finished, too, although they are less expensive. You can pay extra and get a pretty one. Bark River knives are priced about like Swamp Rat, and they are finished well. The new Dumpster Mutt LE is a pretty knife, to me. I like it much better than the original. It did cost quite a bit more, though. Unfinished or "competition grade" knives should be cheaper than the coated ones. I hope. It all comes down to what people are willing to pay for the legendary Busse steels doesn't it?