I think it's about the element of surprise and the readiness of the firearm. We were trained that at around 20 feet an assailant could get to you before you reacted with a weapon.. I would rather have a Glock 10mm than a DF all things being equal!

I guess my point is that even if you get to me with a knife before my gun is drawn. I can dodge/block a knife or even take a stab and still draw my gun and fire. I can't dodge/block bullets.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

I think most people overestimate guns and underestimate knives. I have done a lot of knife fighting practice including working with airsoft guns and training knives and the gun is at a serious disadvantage at close range. Studies done on crime stats in the US have found that the average gunfight takes place at night ,both people fire several shots and no one is hit.I have practiced fighting people with handguns using a knife in particular and am quite confident that unless someone gets the drop on me from a distance I have the advantage. At the range you have to be to be safe from a knife a handgun becomes much less accurate.

This is not just my opinion but is taught to police and is also what most martial artists with knife skills think also. The main thing is to close the distance fast.

I really like the Satin Jack. I like it and the Swamp DJ. I can’t afford the SJ though. I’d like to someday get the Satin SJ. I think it’s a good size and I really like the shape of it. I think it and the DJ look like a good large size EDC sheath knife.


I’ve not heard anything about it. Are there any pics yet? What will make it different than other SHs? Just an extra anniversary label or something?


After your post reminding me of it I had to go check it out again. It does look nice. It’s the upgrades that get ya though. I’d want it for EDC, and I’d want nicer looking scales like snakeskin. Then the price is getting closer to $300 with shipping. And why are the tiger hide scales the premium ones? They don’t look as neat as snakeskin to me. I wish there were more options offered though. It’s a big jump from the regular to the LE, nearly double the price. It’d be nice if the regular width one could come in satin finish for an additional charge. And perhaps a fatty in a CG finish for those that want the strength but can’t afford the price of a LE. Too many nice knives, too little money. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I’ve thought before of buying a cheaper Busse like a Shaker. I’ve seen them sell for like $125 with sheath before. Since it’s more corrosion resistant I thought it would look nice if I bead blasted it. Then I could use my 3/16” Rat Shaker as a neck knife and a heavier ¼ Busse Shaker for a pocket knife. I think a Shaker or Skeleton Key would probably be the cheapest entry-level Busse.

UNSUB - you said: This is not just my opinion but is taught to police and is also what most martial artists with knife skills think also. The main thing is to close the distance fast.

You're absolutely correct. Its 21 feet, and is taught in LE academies. This was duscussed over on BF, here's mine and Morimotom's posts (he's a cop in CA)on the topic:
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In response to some other posts, I had posted the following:
Originally Posted by diceman
I forget how many feet it is that the average person with a knife can cover before you can draw your pistol (these are things I should remember right!?) but it something like 15 or 20. A knife is definately not something to be taken lightly, even if you're packing.
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Then Morimotom, who knows what he is talking about, posted this:
also known as the dennis tueller drill, the generally accepted 'rule' is 21 feet.

at that distance the average person can cover 21 feet in 1.5-1.7 seconds, not enough time to draw a gun and fire effectively, generally. even if you know its coming. in other words, if someone is within that distance and decides to charge, you are going to get cut, hit, or tackled before you can react with a firearm.

i try to practice sidestepping and such to counter this type of attack, but i still know a suspect will make physical contact.

i just took another of his classes and asked him again to explain the story, if you get the chance to talk to him, its really fascinating.
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Hope that clears it up a little. Thread is here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4321181#post4321181

I'm not really arguing with you guys. I guess I'm trying to say I would not be at all confident that I could take someone out with a knife from 20 feet away before they could shoot me but I also have zero training on fighting with a knife. I guess the main point is... the person who has to draw a weapon in a fight is at a disadvantage.

Also, keep in mind that the 21 feet or 1.7 seconds is the time that it takes a cop to unholster his pistol and fire. If someone is standing there w/ piston in hand, you're screwed. If I had to choose 1 EDC for defense, it'd be a pistol BUT, a guy w/ a knife is still very deadly.

re: knife vs pistol

there's just TOO many What-If's and Variables here for ANY kind of definitive answer guys!..

-what kind of pistol? cocked & locked? chambered? what level retention holster?
-does Assailant know you? is it an ambush? random bar brawl?
-does each contestant get to put their hands on their weapon?
-do you know WHO the attacker/defender will be?
-are you uniformed? plainclothed?
-proficiency/training of Knife guy? is he liquored/drugged up? what drugs?
-proficiency/training of LEO? is He liquored up?
-blah blah blah..

I can see where that training above is coming from..
Looks like it assumes WORST Case scenario for LEO...

Cop/LEO is at a DISadvantage in scenario because: he is uniformed, weapon in a retention holster, and knife guy is Ready to charge..

So in a "Real Life" Civilian situation.. imo ANY other number of factors may or may not come into play in the so-called "Knife Vs Pistol" scenario!

As an armed Civilian.. i feel i have certain advantages than if i were uniformed LEO..
Personally.. if I perceive a threat or possible situation.. my pistol is IN hand/chambered/cocked.. either behind my back, in my jacket pocket, or aimed at threat finger on trigger, whatever situation warrants!

So if some perp is going to ambush ME.. he better be Good!
If not, he'll be dead before he hits the floor <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
..then would have to finish off his buddies too.. less witnesses the better.. makes my story more viable in court.

Like the element of surprise. Everyone in the room knows he’s armed. If yours is concealed, you have an advantage.

Tony I like your style! I don't think I'd like to be a 'witness' at one of your gun fights though! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Andy presently there isn't anything out there about the new SH. It's just a 'cooler version' (Jerry's words) of the old one apparently! The scale design will be interesting, while I don't like micarta (I know- big surprise!) I prefer Rat style over Jerry style handles.