Has anybody tried to grind out the talon hole on something like a game warden, AD, or meaner to make a choil more like the SS4? I have no illusions about easily grinding through hardened INFI but I think it would be a fun project. I know several people have expressed their dislike of talon holes, and I love the larger choils.

Surprised no ones dived in on this... If you try it do it slow and steady not to wreck the temper! You may void the warranty though, that would be a major piece of customising work...

I want to try to enlarge the choil on my YKCG. anyone try that yet?

if i had the ability to enlarge the choil on the YK to a finger choil, i'd have bought one. either let me choke up, make it super tiny, or leave it off completely.

wait till knifeguy gets here.

I was thinking if you could cut tangent to the inside of the talon hole to maybe 135 degrees to the handle and as shallow as you could manage on the blade side, that would remove most of the metal before you actually had to grind anything.

Has anybody used anything to cut hardened INFI for any reason?

I'm really tempted to try this.

I am finally here Mag. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I saw this yesterday, but I just didn't have time to respond. I had a lot going on yesterday. I can't just post a one or two line response you know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


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Yes..... I hate the Talon Holes and over-sized Choils on these smaller knives like the AD, Meaner and Warden.

..... And personally, I NEVER like the choils to be over-sized unless intended for and large enough to be a "functioning" finger choil.

And I personally really don't care for the Talon Hole on most knives. I would rather have an integral Guard like Swamp Rat's and Scrap Yard's -

..... Although, I wish Swamp Rat and Scrap Yard had much smaller guards on most of the knives! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Sharpening choils should be SMALL at about 1/8" (0.125"). The AD's choil is about 7/16" almost a 1/2" . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> That is almost 4 times larger than it needs to be and still about half the size of a functioning finger choil - What is up with this??????? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

I have an AD. I passed on a Meaner as I have the SS4 at a much better price.

I passed on the Warden, because I felt it was too expensive for what it is and I like the AD more.

I only have two Busse knives. My SJTAC I will likely keep as I have made a lot of modifications to it and feel it is one of the best mid-sized knives I have come across. I am still on the fence about my AD.
I generally just feel Busse and INFI knives cost too much.
I have an AD worth over $200 with a coating <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" /> and what I consider a poor design around the guard (Talon Hole) and way over-sized choil. The only way to "fix" the guard (Talon Hole) and over-sized choil is to make it all into one larger "Functioning" finger choil....... I am still pondering whether I want to do this or not (?????????????) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I would love to have more INFI. I have actually had probably 5-7 pieces of INFI in the past and I really liked some of them. But, I just couldn't justify keeping them for what they cost.

The AD is Very close to being about as good a knife as I could want in a 3.0" - 4.0" sized blade.
I love the AD's handle. Personally, I would also prefer the radius to be a little deeper and tighter at the index finger. But, right now I consider that modification almost pointless on the AD because of the Talon Hole and over-sized Choil. If I start fixin' then we'll see.

I call it an "over-sized choil" because it is WAY larger than it needs to be for a "sharpening" choil and only about half the size it needs to be to be a functional finger choil.

I like the functional finger choil on my SS4. And since the Meaner is very similar to the SS4, if I had a Meaner, I would definitely grind out the Talon Hole to make a functional finger Choil.

However, on the AD (and the Warden if I had one), I beleive I would prefer the AD with the blade edge in close to the handle: NO Talon Hole, NO over-sized non-functioning choil and NO functioning finger choil.

UNFORTUNATLEY <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />, the Talon Hole and over-sized choil are already there. So, there are only two choices: live with the stupid Talon Hole and wasted space of the over-sized yet non-functioning choil; or grind out the Talon Hole into a functioning finger choil.

I have been on the fence about this in regards to my AD for quite a while. As a matter of fact, I had an AD and couldn't come to terms with the stupid situation and sold the AD because of frustration about how much the knife costs and because of the inability to make it right. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

..... But, then I bought another AD <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> and I am back in the same boat. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

I love the handle of the AD. I love the blade shape of the AD. And I love the size and proportions of the AD.

I could probably deal with (or possibly muddle through and get by with.....)the Talon Hole if the choil was VERY small like this:



But, the above would still not be "Ideal" just much better than current.


IDEALLY, my AD would look more like this:



<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />


.... Maybe some day, Jerry will release an improved AD..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />



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First of all, if you intend to cut-out the Talon Hole, you need to know (as Paul said) certain customizing jobs can potentially void the warranty. And (as Paul said) you should try to do it slow so-as to not wreck the temper.

Dremel Tools are surprisingly more of a problem than most people realize. They spin at incredibly fast speeds and can generate a lot of heat in a very small spot. It is a tricky thing with a Dremel. I use my Dremel with the sanding drum tip on rare occassions, but VERY carefully. I keep the Dremel head moving or touch and release. Don't hold the Dremel sanding drum head in one spot for too long.

I don't think I would use the Dremel with the cut-off wheels as they will develop too much heat (even if in a small spot)

I have not tried "Cutting" INFI or other knife steels with a blade. I don't know if it would be faster or not - or if it would just ruin your cutting blade? Or worse - ruin the temper.

My guess is that if you have the right "sanding" tools, it would probably take about the same time grinding as cutting. Ultimately, you will end up grind eventually.

Normally, for cutting steel, you would want a larger angle grinder or chop saw grinder for steel. They will cut through steel quite fast. But, I would NEVER use one of those on a knife. They will EASILY generate way too much heat and VERY FAST! - Same for a Bench-top Grinder with the grinding stone wheels. They spin very fast and generate a LOT of heat way to fast!

Ideally, you would have something like a KMG belt grinder and a .5" - .75" small wheel.... But, that would run you about $2000 +/- for that tool. I would like that someday. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

The Belt Sander (Belt Grinders) run at much slower speeds than bench-top stone grinders, angle grinders and Dremels. So, the belt sanders are much better for controling the heat. Most knife makers use various versions and set-ups based on using sanding belts.

I have a 1"x36" belt sander that I have been able to adapt to my needs for many knife modifications. I am convinced a Delta 1"x42" is a huge step up and upgrade from my current 1"x36" and a great tool for about $125. But, I am torn between:

Delta 1"x42" at about $125
Kalamazoo 1"x42" vertical belt sander at about $225 - $250

or waiting and investing in a serious variable speed 2"x72" like a KMG - VERY expensive. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Neither the Delta or the Kalamazoo would help with grinding choils.

The KMG has the option for various sized small wheels - The KMG is quite versatile.

Here is the KMG:





Here is the KMG shown with small wheel attachments:



KMG - small wheels


But, for me, for now, I have a $125 Delta drill press and I bought a Craftsman drum sanding kit that chucks into drill chucks. The kit has multiple drum sizes and multiple grits for each drum. These are the best cheap option I have found for grinding out choils. The drums could likely be used with a hand drill, but I think you would want to use an electric drill and clamp the drill in such a what that you can hold the knife with both hands. - Drill press is better.

Here is a pic of a Delta Drum sanding kit from Amazon:



The Sears Craftsman kit is very similar and there are quite a few options no Amazon for $10 - $25.

If you want to try cutting out a "portion" of the Talon Hole to save "some" grinding, an abrasive cut-off wheel would cut through steel faster than a saw blade. But, the abrasive cut-off wheels spin at very high speed and too much heat again would likely damage the temper of the blade. (at least in that area.) So, I recommend caution in choosing how you cut and grind.

If you try to cut, you will probably still have to grind about 75% of the rest of the material to finish. This is probably about the most you could cut:




In the end, I think the AD would look a little funny and out of proportion with a functioning finger choil. It would likely function better than it does now, but "IDEALY" I think the AD would be best served WITHOUT the Talon Hole and WITH a very small sharpening choil.

This is about the best I can visualize the AD looking with a functional finger choil:



I tam certain the functioning finger choil would improve function over the current option, but I am still not convinced a functioning finger choil is as ideal as no Talon Hole and a very small choil. I am just not sure if I will like a finger choil on the AD and I am pretty sure I wouldn't like it on the Warden.


I am pretty sure this would be BEST:



<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .... But, instead I have. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> a Talon Hole <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> and a worthless wasteful over-sized choil that is not functional. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" />



Good luck on your project if you decide to do it.

If you do, please post pictures. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

.

Another superb post KG, very insightful! Good pics too. (I like your AD much better than Jerry's, but as I've got a SS4 it's all moot!)

hah! you coulda said "+1"

cept for the knife mod info, o'course.

here is my AD

w/ a functional choil w/ the talon. personally i find it very comfortable when doing small tedious tasks & it makes the knife more usable for me.

I like the Talon hole but that is a fine looking blade without it.

The Talon hole allows for a safer lanyard especially on large knives but it can also be used to tie your knife to a stick to make a spear. I saw a show about the pygmy bushmen and they had a cheap machete blade tied to a stick and a very pissed off wild boar in the proccess of smashing their trap(made of sticks and vines)to pieces. The guys first strike bent the blade and just made the boar more mad. He was a good hunter though and had his blade bent back into shape and killed it nice and quick. He would have loved the AD with talon hole.

I have the same sort of issues with some of the "features" of the Busse kin knives. I would like to see thinner more practical cutting knives even if they were not covered by the warranty. lately I have been going to Spyderco and eyeing Barkies as a source of thinner sharper edges but I do really like the Yards heat treat and steel better.

I grabbed a few Opinels yesterday from a little country store out in the boonies. at $8-$12 I just couldn't resist. I got a #7, #8, and #10. Those things are wicked sharp.

In the extremely unlikely event that I really needed to make a spear with an AD or Meaner, I think I could get by with the rivet holes.

With a full choil and INFI like the SS4, I think the Busse EDC's would feel like adamantium fixed-blade spyderco's. I just love the feel of the Calypso's and Dragonflies, or the Lava but I've never used one of them. Actually the Manix would be an even better comparison.

I sure do like KnifeGuy's last pic though, but Jerry is the only one that could do that.

Talon hole be damned! Let it be a Scrapper or Swamp Rat! I have a 2007 SE Meaner Street. That darned talon hole is right where a finger choil should be, which is why I prefer the SS4. I might grind it away, but that would ruin any resale value.