KG - thanks for theose pics! Those were awesome man!! Maybe I need to take atrip to the hardware store... I love my NIP and im sure they wont have anything as good as that but i maybe can find some cool abusers.

In effect I purchased a couple of prybars like these some time ago, just because I like its toughness.
Fascinating tools. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The ASH1-CG was offered in double cut.

If you say so Chris.

I just thought the ASH1 was offered "standard" as a CG (finish) and with a Double-Cut upgrade "Option" for an $80.00 extra charge. (*also offered with mag and G10 upgrades)
And I "assumed" if it were upgraded to Double-Cut, then it wasn't called a CG anymore... (?????) But...... ??????

Interestingly, I happend to have copied and saved the ASH1 for sale page.
Notice that the for sale page never mentions "CG". It just mentions "Blade Finishes". ... which are either coated/colored or Double-Cut. Everywhere else it just mentions ASH1 or Anniversary Steel Heart One. I still assume CG and Double-Cut to be different options and assumed the would be: ASH1-CG or ASH1-DC. But, again, ?????? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. In regards to the ASH1, I don't know that it was made clear.:






Because of the optional tag-on upgrade options and how the Double-Cut finish was sold as an option on an otherwise CG blade, I can see where there might be some possible confusion and question as to whether the ASH1 with Double-Cut would be called a CG or DC.
I don't recall any other Double-Cut blades being sold along side coated blades.

But, based on how no other Double-Cut finished blade that I have seen has been referred to as CG, I assume/assumed (?????) the ASH1 that was upgraded to Double-Cut was NOT called CG. (?????)


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reconseed: it depends what you mean by "as good"

because I'm sure the will pry better than a NIP. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> (its what they're designed for!)

+1 - Quite true IMO.

However, if comparing to toughness per ounce, INFI will still most likely win.

I don't know about the "hardness" level on the Nuclear Ice Pick. I don't know if Jerry made it as hard as other Busse blades or not.
Jerry typically hardens INFI to about 58 - 59. The ideal hardness range for different steels depends on what you want the steel to do. Knives generally need to be about 57 - 61 (some kitchen knive that aren't subject to sever abuse are sometimes hardened as high as 62 - 64) A blade edge needs more hardness to help prevent rolling too easily (prevent deformation). But, if it is hardened to much, it will chip, fracture and/or break too easily.
Arguably, a pick needs to be hard for similar reasons - to prevent the tip from deforming. But, if too hard, you risk breaking the tip of a spike potentially even easier than chipping a blades edge.

You can be (reasonably) assured that most any pry-bar is not going to be hardened to 58-59. Lower hardness tend to increase deformation. But, it increases toughness as well. Ideally (typically), tools like pry-bars, hammers, cold punch and such are hardened as much as possible to prevent easy deformation, but soft enough to ensure they won't chip or snap. Jerry Busse and INFI are no doubt the leading edge of maximum performance and maximum balance of toughness and hardness, but at a pretty high price for certain beater type tools.

Most tools don't need the hardness for an edge.

While the pry-bars will likely pry better, it is only fair to mention they are likely a good bit thicker and heavier..... depending on what you find. Most tools are less concerned about weight and more concerned about doing a given job without breaking. There are tons of "beater" type tools out there to chose from. But, like many tools, there are some quality ones and some worthless cheap pieces of crap.

Those spike type pry-bars will likely need some sharpening to perform optimally. They are usually sharpened like a lot of Busse edge - very obtuse. For improved penetration performance (like Busse edges) they will likely benefit from a reprofiling. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Here are some interesting and cheap beater / pry type tools I have come across:

1045 is VERY tough steel if hardened properly. But, it is easy for most to work with. So, proper hardness whil maintaining HIGH toughness should be easy to achieve....
.... and for only $12.00!!!!:



see: EOD ROBOTICS BREACHER BAR



Reminds me of a mini-sharpened lawn-mower blade. Or gas edger blade for that matter. For that matter, an edger blade might pry quite well. I have seen edger blades chew up concrete edging and I have never seen one break. They just slowly wear down. So, I assume they are quite tough. And they are CHEAP. But, not as thick as the above tool and not as well finished. So, for $12.00.....


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Something smaller for $5.00. This little dude should fit handily on a key-chain or similar. I would hate to use my $30 - $75 pocket knife blades as a pry tool. And I rarely justify carrying a big heavy Leatherman. This is made of D-9. I don't know anything about D-9, but they say it is tough (????). For $5.00, might be worth trying for some people.:



with para-cord wrap:



See: Widgy Bar


----------------------------------

Bunch of other misc. handy tools: countycomm


There is stuff like the above tools ALL over the internet and often just at the local hardware stores.

.

true KF.

most pry bars are a lot heavier than a NIP.

I wonder what the balance is for a pry bar?
they have to be soft, without taking a set easily. "sometimes too tough is also bad because they can take a set easily.
I guess it just depends on the HT, like all things.

Who's KF???? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


I don't really know what Rockwell hardness most pry-bar makers shoot for. I assume like knives, it depends on a number of factors: size, intended use, type of steel used, etc.

Some cheap junk might not even be tested or aimed for any optimal hardness (????).

But, out of curiosity, I did a quick search for keywords "Prybar" & "Hardness". I came up with "one" answer. But, again, I assume Rockwell hardness varies with maker and other factors.

Shark is a brand that makes some pry-bars. I have about 3 of Shark's prybars. All of the ones I have from them are probably about 7" - 10" oal (smaller). The Shark pry-bars I have are more nail pullers and specialty shaped. One trim panel pry-bar has been a particularly useful and heavily used renovation tool for me.
Looks like this:



Shark mentioned Rockwell hardness of 50 - 52. Which sounds reasonably hard for a prybar and sufficiently tough to me as well (????).

I assume this might apply to these smaller ones. And I am guessing many of the larger ones might be a little under 50. But, I am pulling guesses out of my butt. Maybe they are the same (???). My knowledge of metallurgy isn't that diversified. Potentially a lot of calculations to consider based on size, torque, steel properties, etc.

so... for whatever that info is worth to you.

But, you are right about problems associated with them being too soft. I have bent a couple of 3' and 4' crow bars in the past. I assume they were cheaper steel (?????). Once bent, they are hard to ever get straight again and they seem to somehow be more prone to bending again after once bending (???)

I have never seemed to get near close to bending either of my Gorilla bars. I have an 18" and a 24".


Of course, the longer the bar, the easier to bend. So, not fair to compare a 48" bar to an 18" bar that is just as thick.

I have a big 6' bar about 1" diameter. I am not sure if you call it a breaker bar or what. But, I have used it to break up concrete. It is very heavy and works like a manual jack hammer. Looks something like this:



The tip holds up VERY well against the extreme impact forces if straight down. But, mine has a little narrower tip profile than the one pictured and the tip will bend a little if torqued on. Still amazingly tough for a massive chunk of steel that probably cost about $30. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

.

KG-
Chris is right. The ASH-1 series was defined by its thickness, not the blade finish. The CG ASHs had the thickest blades (.32" stock), independent of finish. The Skinny ASHs had the thinnest blades and all Skinnys (to date) are epoxy coated blades.

The ASH-1 SE was DC, the LE satin, and DC was also an optional finish on the CG ASH. The SE & LEs were .22" thick stock.

sorry guys but i didnt mean to say that the NIP was better at prying than those prybars. I just like it more and think its more "Tactical" whatever tactical means <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> i just like the thought of pointy, sharp INFI. :P

Neat thread guys. Thanks for the help and i am glad the thread kinda turned a bit and we got to discuss some other things.