The fact that we have people who will push a knife to it's limits and beyond keeps the industry honest. This and every other steel failure can tell the maker how to improve the next batch. Why aren't the rest of y'all out there breaking knives? Start with a couple Frost knives then move up to a Buck or a Case then go out and break those Randalls and Fowlers and Busses and Kresslers. My guess is that you will break a larger percentage of the lower grade knives than of the upper grade knives thus proving the quality in the higher grade knives. A knife with a 'perfect' record? Maybe some day but until then keep breaking those blades!!

+1



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I can appreciate your concern being it happened to you. But, I have been an avid member of the Swamp Forum for LONG before Scrap Yard has been in existance. I have NEVER seen a tip or blade failure like that with SR-101. I have seen a chop-off a few months ago with a M6 where there was excessive edge damage. But, in that case, the blade had been ground on with a belt sander. It is very possible that too much heat was allowed to build up on sharpened edge from the sander that could have damaged the temper in that case.

In your case, with your broken tip, I have to STRONGLY believe you had a RARE defect in the steel.

For the way you describe your intended preferences for use of your knives, maybe SR-77 and INFI do have some advantages for you. SR-101 (at the higher hardness levels below the temper line) is more brittle and stiff than SR-77 or INFI. AS Vic mentioned, the hardness temper line will typically include the point. BUT, SR-101 is "still" EXTREMELY tough. I have seen SR-101 take much more extreme abuse than yours did.

You mention "playing the percentages". By my count, I have seen more INFI and SR-77 defects than SR-101 defects. I have seen INFI break. I have seen SR-77 with bubble defects. I have not seen any damage like this to SR-101.
I think I have seen a Swamp Rat Ice Pick broken. But, those are thin and I could easily see and understand them breaking if used for prying.
The Chopweiler has a thick tip.

You must do what you must do. But, based on all of the beatings I have seen SR-101 take, I would personally feel very confident that yours was an unfortunate and VERY RARE defect in the steel.


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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> - On a side note though, I read your post on the Bladeforums Swamp Rat forum. I can appreciate your dissappointment if Swamp Rat doesn't pay for return shipping on such a defect.

But, do you actually have confirmation yet from Eric that Swamp Rat will NOT pay for return shipping?

It sounds like there are assumptions being made based on posts from forum members that you will have to pay for return shipping. It doesn't sound like Eric has confirmed who will pay for return shipping.

I would be dissappointed to hear if you have to pay for return shipping.

For years, I hear about how great Busse and kin customer service is. But, I know it would cost you a lot to ship the knife back to the states and I am sure it cost you a lot in shipping to get it to you in the first place. (I think I pay a little too much in shipping within the states <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> )

Considering what I consider the "extra" profits made on shipping with all orders, I would think that alone should cover return shipping on any and all defective / warranty issue knives.... but, that is just my opinion.

I would think, with the pictures you provided, Busse / Swamp Rat would pay for return shipping and pay for shipping of a replacement knife.

The break appears to be an obvious defect.

I have had companies who don't place so much emphasis on there customer service pay for my return shipping on defective items.

I purchased a pair of AudioEngine 5 amped speakers from Ebay about 2 years ago. The speakers were near new at the time.
The speakers have a 3-year warranty that is transferrable if you have the receipt. But, the seller did not send me the original receipt.
I called and described my issue. The company still honored the warranty as they could confirm the speakers were less than 3-years old. They shipped me a replacement speaker and a paid return label for me to return the defective speaker. I have been impressed with their service and product in spite of my issue.

I believe something may have just come loose inside the the speaker at the amp causing a buzzing noise. Otherwise, great sounding speakers. Had they been difficult to deal with, I couldn't complain much since I was not the original owner and didn't have the original receipt. But, with that type of service and considering everything else about their product indicates great quality, I have to be impressed with their company.

Considering the complexity and parts involved in an amped AudioEngine 5 speaker, I know the profit margins had to be WAY less for AudioEngine on their speakers than on a Chopweiler. And shipping costs are way more for a heavy and large amped speaker compared to a knife (even from Australia). But, they covered it anyway.

------------------

I "HOPE" to hear that Swamp Rat covers your return shipping. I honestly have never had to return a knife to them. So, I don't know how that works. But, I would be dissappointed to hear if Swamp Rat doesn't pay for return shipping.


Nevertheless, aside from possible shipping issues (????? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ), I am a big fan of the Chopweiler and SR-101 steel.



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+1



.

SR-77 is more flexible than SR-101 at similar hardness levels.

"Better" steel is a personal opinion and a subjective statement.

I think SR-77 is amazingly tough. But, for my purposes, I honestly prefer SR-101.

If you need a prybar, SR-77 is probably "Better".

If you want a knife that cuts and holds a great edge well and while not as tough as SR-77 is still significantly tough and tougher than most other knife steels in the industry, I would argue and believe SR-101 to be "Better".

The larger SR-101 blades are differentially heat treated giving the bottom (edge) third or so of the knife a harder and stiffer edge to hold it's sharpness better while having a softer spine for more toughness. This process is no doubt more expensive.

SR-77 is generally considered tougher. SR-77 is one of the toughest steels on the market right up close and behind INFI. Both are EXTREMELY tough.
Sr-77 has decent edge holding qualities. However, SR-77 doesn't hold an edge as well as INFI or SR-101.

SR-101 is still considered VERY tough, but also with GREAT edge properties. It holds an awesome edge and is easy to sharpen.

If you compare older Swamp Rat blades with Res-C handles and original release prices to current Scrap Yard prices on comparable knives, the prices are not too much different. SR-101 seems to have typically been about $10 - $15 more per comparable blade. Some types of steel cost more than others.


The difference in prices with Swamp Rat with micarta handles is the cost of the micarta handles...... and probably a little more profit as Swamp Rat was bumped from Busse's lower end line to mid-range line when they introduced Scrap Yard and gave all Res-C handles to Scrap Yard.

.

I personally would not sell it.
Thats ridiculous in my eyes.
your not even giving it a chance?
it's like throwing out a great knife.

sr101 has more lateral "strength" I would think (and I can easily feel the difference between sr77 and my 5160 rangers) but sr77 has more lateral "toughness."

that was probably a fluke... (I would think) and I would give the CW another try.
thats just me though.

yes.
thats a good way of putting it bruce.
It's very easy to understand.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Well I think at first blush that the shipping costs at least one way....whether it is sending the knife back or the replacement out ought to be covered under the warranty.

If it turns out to be defective steel and I can understand their need to check SR should be able to get a credit from their steel suppliers or some form of "balancing" of the costs involved in the resulting warranty work.

However...in fairness to any knife maker...if they buy the steel in they are going to get caught everyonce in a while with a defective batch....it is just the law of averages...but how they deal with that is what makes the difference.Shipping is no small cost to Australia...if you want a Rolls Royce reputation you need to act as they do....fly out a replacement.

If CW had a problem with the tips due to differential temporaring we would have heard about it a long time ago....they would'nt be renowned for their toughness.

If 338 is of the view however that once bitten is enough to steer him onto other Bussekin knives that's his call.....the family still have a customer.

I don't suppose there are now any knifemakers who don't buy in the steel but forge their own? I have'nt heard of anyone doing that....so it is a risk they all must take. The only steel out there which is forged by the makers are the masters still making Samurai Swords the old way in Japan as far as I am aware. There the forging and folding and hamon are distinctive of each maker.

If anyone knows of a knife maker who forges and blends their own steel I would be interested to know?

+1


.

Interesting comments men. I appreciate them all, thank you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> .

I will send an email to SR soon.
I will not go into detail about the deal. I will just mention the breakage, with pic's. Then state I'm NOT sending it in if I have to pay shipping fees to & from.
It's cut & dry with me. I hope I don't get a long drawn out reason why the buyer should pay the shipping costs, from Australia, on a knife I have had for two weeks.

But at the end of the day, it's still a great batoner. And really, that's all I really need this knife to do.
When I head bush my S6 or my new Skinny ASH will see all the pack time. So realistically this CW was only a camp knife for when my family needed to chop wood for the fire, whilst I was out hunting the mornings. Or batoning wood at home for the fire.
I just thank god my son bought the SOD, man, the more I learn about SR-77/Scrap Yard steel, the more I'm glad we invested in the company. Same deal with Busse, I need more!
Thanks SY, great knives!

ANY knife can fail. I can almost trust my life to my BR or CT or any SR knives but it doesn't mean that they can't fail. Your SW might just be that 1 in a million knife. Why don't you give them a second chance to make things right? SR, SY, and busse are after all, one family.

Anything can fail, I trusted my Rock River AR15 to never fail. but after putting in 1,500+ rounds of dirty ammo it had a FTF. It doesn't mean that the gun is a lemon.

I trusted my girlfriend to never fail me on making good dinner. but after making dinner for years she finally mistaken the sugar bottle as the salt bottle for seasoning one day. Needless to say, we had a very SWEET dinner that night.

get the SW replaced, do the same tip test again. 10bucks say the tip will stay put <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I also wanted to add this link, so other men from other forums can see how all this started.
I still love the knife, I just don't have the confidence with it I did at the start.
http://www.scrapyardknives.com/ubbthread...;gonew=1#UNREAD

Email has been sent to Eric. So we will see the outcome on shipping back & forth.

I will also say. Eric did in no ways ever say he or SR were not going to honor this warranty. I just wanted to make that clear. He has been polite & gentleman like in every way.

So much for the famed jeep story! Swamp rat's importing from Taiwan!!!

All collectors: your blades have lost their appeal.

All users: your blades have lost their dependability.

All: the proper course of action now is to dispose of these knives at the JYD7 landfill in NJ. Don't cancel your SOD orders, though. Just forward them to the disposal site.