Re: Pellet Gun ???
[Re: DotD]
#257020
12/30/08 06:57 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 897
Momaw
Scrapper
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Scrapper
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 897 |
Keep in mind that all I have is knowledge, no experience. But. A common theme if you look around the haunts of experienced air rifle hunters is that you don't want to violate the sound barrier. Any projectile that crosses from supersonic to subsonic will get hit by its own shockwave, which will knock it around quite a bit. And since pellets have very little mass or cross-sectional density, they slow down fast. So really what you ideally want is the heaviest pellet you can throw at 900-1000 feet per second, avoiding the speed of sound, which would be the death of your accuracy. The .22 caliber pellets are obviously much heavier than the .117 (between two and three times heavier!), giving significantly more energy at the same speed. Plus they're just plain bigger at the terminal end (0.0379 square inch versus 0.0107 square inch), which translates to more tissue destroyed and a more reliable kill. A little more expensive than the .117's, but we're still talking in the neighborhood of two or three cents per shot (it looks like the truly exorbitant 'ultra' ammo is 6 cents per shot). Not exactly breaking the bank. I was eyeballing this rifle for myself...
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Re: Pellet Gun ???
[Re: Momaw]
#257021
12/30/08 04:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,060
DotD
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,060 |
Keep in mind that all I have is knowledge, no experience. But. A common theme if you look around the haunts of experienced air rifle hunters is that you don't want to violate the sound barrier. Any projectile that crosses from supersonic to subsonic will get hit by its own shockwave, which will knock it around quite a bit. And since pellets have very little mass or cross-sectional density, they slow down fast. So really what you ideally want is the heaviest pellet you can throw at 900-1000 feet per second, avoiding the speed of sound, which would be the death of your accuracy. The .22 caliber pellets are obviously much heavier than the .117 (between two and three times heavier!), giving significantly more energy at the same speed. Plus they're just plain bigger at the terminal end (0.0379 square inch versus 0.0107 square inch), which translates to more tissue destroyed and a more reliable kill. A little more expensive than the .117's, but we're still talking in the neighborhood of two or three cents per shot (it looks like the truly exorbitant 'ultra' ammo is 6 cents per shot). Not exactly breaking the bank. I was eyeballing this rifle for myself... Great breakdown. Nice looking rifle on the site. I sent them an email on it to see if they'll ship to Canada. Thanks Momaw <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />
Dawgs travel in packs; Don't mess with the pack
JYD#62
Dave
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Re: Pellet Gun ???
[Re: DotD]
#257022
01/03/09 12:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,379
Steel Fan
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,379 |
I have shot rabbits commercially with all manner of air rifle...the best system is the air bottle rifles and use a manual track pump to fill them rather than the "scuba" bottle approach...it is cheaper and always able to be used...fixing the pump is easier as well than fixing a pump up rifle...plus with an air bottle rifle you get a magazine system and a quick second shot...just like a bolt action rifle...which is invaluable for putting game on the table...you can take multiple rabbits with this system. Also you can buy a few spare air bottles for the rifle and load these up and shoot all night if you want....at 50-60 rabbits a night you can soon pay for the rifle and scope.
You can also regulate the power on the rifle so it shoots at the ideal velocity for your needs.
Remember to budget for a good scope....it is worth it in the end. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />
JYD #75
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Re: Pellet Gun ???
[Re: Steel Fan]
#257023
01/03/09 02:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,379
Steel Fan
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,379 |
As a second thought on this topic I should say that over here in the UK there are a limited number of air rifles which can be supplied as "firearms" certificate versions....meaning they produce more than 12 ft lbs. These versions of air rifles tend to be towards the top end of the range of the "air bottle" type rifles and given that we tend to pay pounds for dollars these are rather expensive when compared to a .22 rimfire rifle.
As an example a Theoban air rifle which is powered to FAC level is about £800...a good .22 rifle from Anschutz is about £400...the cost of Eley subsonic rounds is £69 per 1000...therefore for the same price as the air rifle you could have a .22 LR and 5000 rounds...therefore for us it is actually more economical to have a .22 LR which is moderated and shoots subsonic ammo...I don't know if it is the same in the US but it seems to me that Air Rifles are unjustifiably expensive....plus you will be a fair bit more effective with a subsonic .22 rimfire round than an air rifle pellet.
That's why I sold my Day State Air rifle...got myself a Sako heavy barrel .22 and moderator and a fair bit of ammo...and that was on the trade in value...the scope I just swapped over and I still have'nt used all the ammo I got...I must have 1000 rounds left.
JYD #75
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Re: Pellet Gun ???
[Re: Steel Fan]
#257024
01/04/09 12:15 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,060
DotD
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,060 |
Wow Steel Fan,
That's a LOT of money to pay for an air-rifle! I only paid $350 CDN for my Remington 870 12 gauge!
Cheers
Dawgs travel in packs; Don't mess with the pack
JYD#62
Dave
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Re: Pellet Gun ???
[Re: DotD]
#257025
01/06/09 01:03 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,198
Art
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,198 |
And I thought California was bad. Enjoying this thread btw, I was also looking at getting an air rifle vs a good .22 (like that Sako). I'm edging towards the .22 though...need...more...info..Dang need for research!
JYD #66
Endure to the End
Long live the Brotherhood of the Yard
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Re: Pellet Gun ???
[Re: Art]
#257026
01/07/09 01:12 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,532
Tolly
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,532 |
And I thought California was bad. Enjoying this thread btw, I was also looking at getting an air rifle vs a good .22 (like that Sako). I'm edging towards the .22 though...need...more...info..Dang need for research! If you are leaning towards a .22 and don't mind spending a little money, do yourself a big favor and buy a CZ 452 American... CZ 452 American . I own Kimbers, Sakos, Rugers, Brownings, Winchesters, Marlins, Remingtons and every other .22 you can think of and the CZ 452 blows them all away. Accuracy that is beyond belief(mine shoots 1/4" at 100 yards) and perfect balance. Trust me, you owe it to yourself to check one out. As for air rifles, I really like the Diana RWS 34 in either .177 or .22 . It's a fine German made rifle and it's hard to beat for $209 Delivered RWS 34 .
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
John 15:13
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Re: Pellet Gun ???
[Re: Tolly]
#257027
01/07/09 04:11 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,198
Art
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,198 |
Thanks Tolly, I'm definitely checking out that CZ.
JYD #66
Endure to the End
Long live the Brotherhood of the Yard
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Re: Pellet Gun ???
[Re: Tolly]
#257028
01/09/09 05:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,254
ordawg1
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,254 |
Thnaks for link Tolly- VERY cool <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />
KILLER DAWGS
JYD# 61
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Re: Pellet Gun ???
[Re: DotD]
#257029
01/11/09 07:33 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,379
Steel Fan
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,379 |
Wow Steel Fan,
That's a LOT of money to pay for an air-rifle! I only paid $350 CDN for my Remington 870 12 gauge!
Cheers Yes, air rifles over here in the UK are unjustifiably expensive but they can be bought without a firearms certificate and as such seem to have a mark up based on the fact that they are instantly available. As a teenager I worked for a game keeper and had a Feinwerkbau .22 Sport air rifle which for a simple spring operated break barrel rifle was considered the best of it's kind at that time. It guaranteed 12 ft lbs of energy and was very accurate...no where near the comparison prices of what is at the top of the tree in today's market...and I must have shot over 1000 rabbits easily with it. Never counted but it regularly was used to shoot 20 at a time and I still have it to this day....refurbished on the spring etc...it is now 33 years old...and great for sorting out the garden if need be. But the trajectory on these for shooting in fields is like a Rainbow...I remember as a boy I seemed to have this worked out in my head somehow...maybe I shot it so much it became second nature...but now the benefit of a FAC Air rifle really shows when out lamping in fields...the trajectory is much more like a standard .22 Rimfire. I have seen the prices in the States and they are very reasonable compared to over here...so for your use I think a full power air rifle is good value for money. Here I expect "taxes" and greedy profit margins account for the high prices. Tolly's reccomendation on the CZ is interesting...they are cheap here to...comparitively speaking. I think Tolly might have a "hummer" barrel on his though....it happens every now and then that a rifle is produced with perfect harmonics in the barrel for accuracy...and you need that on the thin stalking type barrels for them to group like that. That is why heavy barrels are more commonly seen on target rifles...my Sako heavy barrel can group like that in our tunnel range...one ragged hole with Eley Match...but out in the open the wind opens the average group.
JYD #75
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