OK, so I am so moved by the Ratmandu request thread that I feel compelled to start something that just goes against my grain. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />


I only own one Swamp Rat knife. It is a Howling Rat Gen 1 with a Res-C handle. I stripped it when I did the same to my DFCG and I can't say how much I love them both. I love all my knives but the ONLY Swamp Rat has a quality that compels me to write this thread and ask the Dogs who own Rats a serious question.

I find the edge on my HR is scalpel sharp. I mean when I hold up a magazine and let the blade drift through the page without a snag and pull it up a bit and repeat the process as many as 10-15 times I consider a blade scalpel sharp. NO SNAGS excepted.

When I try with SR-77 it seems to catch and drag on the page stopping the test. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

When I use the Bird and Puppy of 154CM they glide through the test with nary a glitch. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The Howling Rat has ALWAYS had a edge that defines sharp to me. My ultimate question to owners of both does SR-101 take a finer edge for slicing than SR-77? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

My Rat seems to have always been sharper than any SR-77 I own. Is it a family trait that ALL Swamp Rat knives share? Or is it just the shape,size,and bevel of the Gen 1 HR that make it cut so delicately? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Answers and your own experiences are welcomed and appreciated.

No bashing my favorite TOUGH steel SR-77 but I just need to know if it is all Swamps steel that has this ability or just a model.

Thanks and sorry for the wordy question. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


Peace.

Sr101 is better for taking a sharp and keep that edge, based on my understanding.

SR77 is just a jackhammer bit steel that shines in the toughness column.

Well here's my personal thoughts and experience. The SR77 will get just as sharp as the SR101 given you are comparing apples to apples. Meaning the grinds, profiles, edge thickness, bevel angle and level to which the edges are polished must be the same on both knives.

If all of the above is the same on both knives, it has been my experience that SR77 will get just as sharp, however, it will not stay at that level of sharpness for the same length of time that the SR101 will.

In my experience the SR77 likes a little more obtuse grind(little more meat behind the edge) and not as shallow of an angle as SR101 can/will stand. That being said, on my choppers I usually sharpen my Swamp Rats and my Scrappers to about the same angle, but on an EDC or double duty knife like the RatManDu, I will go ahead and lower the angle and thin the edge on out a little bit more.

Hope that helps.

It took me quite a while to actually notice a difference. I am perfectly happy with SR77. After nearly a year I did notice that the SR101 would get "scary" sharp and would hold its edge for a long time and through a lot of use. But the edge holding of SR77 is about what I had been used to in field knives, about like 1095. I have never broken a blade in either steel, but from tests I've seen, the SR77 is the toughest steel around. That makes it my first choice in a hard use blade like the DF. In the smaller knives that are used for slicing, SR101 or 154CM are great. Both those steels have very good edge retention. The new SOD is in the steel I would choose for a knife of that type. Not that Camp Tramps are shattering all over the place, but SR77 is just a bit tougher. Might as well have that little extra toughness in a chopper. My two cents.

In my experience, Carbon steels like 1095 or SR101 and the like have always seemed to take a slightly keener edge than other steels. There's not too much difference with SR77 and it takes a good enough edge for anything I do, but it's hard to beat SR101 for having a Scalpel sharp edge with the right sharpening.

You get what ya pay for and IMO SR101 is better knife steel than SR77, if I were picking an axe steel then SR77 would get the nod but when I want great edge retention, toughness,flexability etc then I'll take SR101 over SR77 !
Now if I could afford INFI then I would likely take INFI over SR101 but as I can't that is a decision I don't have to make !!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Does this mean SR77 is no good ? Hell NO, it performs as good as most other Carbon steels and with Scrapyard blades, on a price to performance ratio it can't be beat !!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

It is amazing that we are able nit pick as much as we do. Our ancestors who depended on their knives and tools more than we do would be amazed at the huge selection of premium cutlery steels we enjoy today.

+1

I have some pieces of INFI and INFI is still THE premier fixed blade steel. But, I still prefer SR-101 over SR-77 for my uses and YES, personally, I find I can get a sharper, keener edge that holds for longer on SR-101 compared to SR-77.

Considering I feel SR-101 is PLENTY tough for my needs (as I have stated, I don't recall a BM or CT ever failing!), I view edge qualities VERY highly.

I "can" get a decent edge on SR-77, but SR-101 just gets sharper for me. Personally, I have never found SR-101 to not be tough enough. But, I suppose if I ultimately had to have a SHTF, do it all knife including lots of prying and beatings for the end of the world and couldn't have INFI, SR-77 would be a very good choice.

But, in my personal real world needs and uses, extremely good edge quality and "sufficient" toughness are my first preferences. SR-101 has extremely good edge quality and more than sufficient toughness.

I personally can tell the difference in edge qualities when comparing SR-77 vs. SR-101. But, honestly, I do have a hard time noticing much difference between INFI and SR-101 in edge quality. So, IMO, while I love INFI, in reality, I think most people would have a very hard time justifying INFI over SR-101 - except for an AK-47. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> .... or maybe an NMFBM. But, the Rat Daddy is almost as large as a NMFBM and the Rat Daddy's have been highly prized by those who have them.

I know SR-77 can be made to polish and shine as well, but I just happen to have some decent pics of a nice polished edge on my Howler in SR-101:





<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

.

VERY true Vic. We are spoiled and jaded. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Lucky as well. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

.

From what I have read on many forums, 52100 was developed from 50100B (from 1095 etc)to provide a knife that would take and hold an exceptional edge. The move from 50100b to 52100 is described as a small step down in toughness and a step up in edge quaility. Super edges come from fine grain steel. Mike Stewart describes 52100 as a very fine grain equal to A2 and 12c27 (talking steel grain size not toughness). SR101 is an improvement over 52100 and hemce should be "known" for its scray sharp edges.
The whole subject is definitly a function of geometry and edge profile (these may actually be more important than steel).
All things being equal I would expect SR101 to take and hold an edge better than SR77, with SR77 being tougher. Several people on various forums have stated this from experience also.
My understanding is that INFI will take and hold a great edge also. Some of my Busse knives have been very sharp and some very dull (from the factory). The two Busse knives at the ends of the spectrum are my two SJTACs. Satin finished one Scarry sharp (I love that term) and my first Busse (CG SJTAK) someone forgot to sharpen.
Ron Athay

How would say 5160 hold up in comparison I am wondering ? Whenever I bring up 101 or 77 I usually hear the merits of 5160. I am trying to learn this steel - so bear with me if stupid question-Thank You

This aught to help. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Borrowed it from the AG Russel site. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />