i know some of you guys are quite knowledgeable when it comes to firearms.i know a bit but want your thoughts.

my old mans planning on getting some assault rifles while its still legal.he doesnt shoot or hunt.these are for a SHTF scenario.

what are the pro's and cons of the SKS vs.the AK.i know the history behind both and am pretty familiar with both along with the AK-74 but in a survival situation which do think would be better to have.and i know there may be guns that would be better than either but i still want to get to the bottom of this.

is the SKS more accurate and does it have a bit more velocity due to the longer barrel??

how reliable is the SKS compared to the famously reliable AK-47??

which is easier to clean in the field and which one needs it most??

if he goes with the AK it will most likely be a SAIGA.the fact that their black synthetic stocks without the pistol grip dont really resemble an AK is a big plus in our opinion regarding a SHTF or hurricane katrina like scenario.

They are both simple and reliable rifles. I prefer the detachable box magazine of the AK-47. The AK is a breeze to clean. As far as accuracy, I shoot better with the SKS off hand, but that is probably due to a longer sight radius than anything else. I see a lot of folks arming themselves lately. Something is in the air.

you can say that again.like that friggen song by phil collins...{good song}...

get'em while the gettin' is legal boys,assault rifles that is.the back of the newspaper and swap sheet is a good place too.

maybe i've been reading to much of the turners diaries.

but i've been feeling the same way HD.something is in the air.it feels like a whole lot is going to change in the next few years.hey look,there's that word "change" again.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What will you do when they come to take your guns? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Haven't read that book in years.

yeah,timothy mcveigh and the racist stuff make the book controversial but i find some of the thoughts in the book interesting.

this is my second time reading it.its really a well put together piece of fiction,or is it fiction...lol.

Try Unintended Consequences by John Ross.

I have not read either book but have heard about both of them. This thread is interesting, considering what is happening in this country as well as globally. We caught Glenn Beck the other day when he had as guests a former CIA operative and a former Department of Homeland Security man. They were discussing current problems as well as likely scenarios in the next couple of years. It is sad and disturbing what is happening here and abroad; the near future may make the 30's Depression look like a relative cakewalk. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I DEFINITELY believe in hoping for the BEST, but PREPARING for the worst! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

been shooting both for years. i have 1 russian sks and 2 aks.

both are the 2 most reliable rifles ever built, arguably. well, no its really not arguable. anyone that knows anything about semi automatic blowback, gas operated firing systems will attest to this. the SKS will be slightly more accurate due to its longer barrel. the operating system of the 2 firearms is precisely the same. therefore, functionality will be pristine with both rifles. the ak, as HD said, is nicer in terms of having detachable mags by design. this means that while the sks can be converted to take detachable mags, it will cost you in the reliability dept. (the inclusion of detachable mags on the sks has shown and proven to deter the fierarms feed-ability in some cases). i have a romanian wasr-10. (1 of the cheapest made aks on the market, mind you) people who shoot egyptian maadis ( i have one maadi as well) and russians and chinese mak90's will often [censored] the wasr10's, primarily due to their sloppy fit and finish and stamped receivers. (this can inhibit you when firing rapidly as the stamped receiver heats up F A S T!!!!!!) and can consequently bend under extreme heat. the milled receiver on the russians, some of the chinese, and some of the maadis (mine has a milled receiver) will allow for rapid fire and you dont have to worry about the receiver becoming deformed.

in the end, either rifle is one of the best rifles in the world in terms of reliability. my wasr10 has been every bit as reliable as my Egyptian Maadi and i paid almost 3 times LESS THAN the maadi for it. get either. the ak47 will obviously be worth more, should you ever decide to sell it. but the sks is, IMO, just a fine fine fine rifle. original with a 10 round mag... the thing will virtually never jam. there is a hella nice one down the road. a russian SKS that i am thinking about picking up for $400. you cant beat either one. i have been a staunch shooter of these 2 firearms for years and owned them for an ample amount of time. i hope this post has helped you. i dont know as much about SY knives as HD or some others but i do know Aks and sks's.

I have a Norinco SKS that I bought new years ago for $75.00. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It shoots quite well and is extremely reliable. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Go to Google and type in REX 84. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Not a pleasant thought! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />

Recon Seed, do you have any thoughts on the modern Saiga 7.62x39 rifles?

I agree with Recon seed. I have had both and many variations of each. If were to pick one it would be the SKS because they seem to be more accurate.

Hmm, the MAK 90s are very nice and are very accurate too. How accurate do you need to be for your given task? If I could afford it I would go with a good AK hands down. For the money though the SKSs are hard to beat. None of these will be shooting as tight of groups as say Recon's 700 though.

Bloody scary if you ask me!

It IS scary!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> With the way the drug cartels are taking over the corrupt Mexican government it's not hard to figure which country the people will be running for. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> And they won't be concerned about Americans' rights either! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Yup, the SKS or the AK wont shoot as tight, or anywhere near it, as my new 700 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> that baby is DEAD-ON. But then again, its apples and oranges there again.

The Saigas are variants of the AK and are subject to ones opinions. In terms of reliability, they are very much and i mean VERY MUCH identical to the AK and SKS in terms of the gas operated system. They are not as common as the AK or SKS or course... Personally, I favor the tradiational setup of the AK47 or the rugged, oddly short SKS. those that shoot the SKS know what i mean by "oddly short". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Okah.....reloaded!

For this reason I would personally choose the AK.

I know we like to get all hung up on accuracy, and splitting hairs. However, that is not the intended purpose of this style of rifle OR the specific round. Energy falls off pretty fast.

That being the case, quick reloads and more importantly, already prepared reloads, and not having to worry about strippers would be the deciding factor for me.

Assault rifle and good bolt action will do all that you need.

I seem to remember there's an old Chinese curse/wish: May you live in interesting times. Well, friends, I think "interesting times" are coming.

But to the original question, I'm not that familiar with the SKS, but I do own a couple of AKs. Both Vectors. I like them a great deal. Not quite the most accurate rifle I've ever fired, but they'll both shoot minute-of-man at 300 meters, which is good enough for me.

Owned several of both and I like the ak because of the detachable magazine and it can hold more rounds than the stock box 10 round mag for the sks. I do like the longer sight radius on the sks too. They are both easy to break down and clean. I think the sks is much cheaper than the ak right now, but they are getting super expensive too. I had 5 sks's at one time but kept my Russian and chinese paratrooper. I never owned a Siaga, but I hear they are super nice and accurate ak's. I always wanted to get a .308 Saiga, but they are hard to find. If you can get the Saiga, you can't go wrong with one of them, jump on it, they are really nice.

Nothing wrong with the SKS but I strongly prefer the AK. I like the pistol grip stock, more options for modifying, detachable mags. AK's are getting expensive these days though. I've seen shitty ones go for $700+. Still can get a good SKS (Noricos are great) for around $350-400.

These days I own a Lancaster Polish underfolder and an Arsenal Krink. Both excellent weapons. I'd also like to pick up a Mak-90, owned a post ban version a few years back and it was a very fine weapon.





The Saigas don't take standard AK mags so I would stay away from them. I own a Saiga 12 but that's because its a 12 gauge. Now that is a fun gun.

haha , the dog is classic!!!! HAHAH!

Yeah, he sneaks into a lot of pictures I take.

that was going to be my next question.is it true that the saigas wont take traditional high-cap mags.now i know.

what i like about the saigas is that without the pistol grip and wooden furniture they dont look like traditional AK's and wouldnt carry that astigmatism.these would be a SHTF rifle for my family and me should something very rare but serious ever develop and keeping under the radar as much as possible would be a priority for me.the same reason i asked oppinions on which was the least tactical color between black and tan concerning backpack selection {i went with black,non MOLLE}

RECON,

for the record that was very helpful to me and much appreciated.i new they where both very reliable rifles.i assumed the sks would be a bit more accurate with the longer barrel but wasnt sure about its exact operation in comparison with the AK.

would the longer barrel of the sks give it a better velocity/feet-per-second and if it did would it be enough to even matter.

thanks guys.lets all cross our fingers.i've known of those camps for a while and if you think thats scary there's a lot more going on than that.

Ah, I didn't know about the magazine incompatibility of the Saigas. I have to ask though, how different are they. Are we talking the kind of problem that somebody could solve with ten minutes persuasion with a dremel tool, or real differences...

Yeah, you can modify the magwell if you know what you are doing or send it out and get modded to take AK mags. Its not a big mod.

Thing is, if cops/military are grabbing guns in a time of disaster they won't care if its a Saiga or a full blown AK. They were taking .22s off of old women in Katrina. Get something small, folding stock, SBR, whatever, and be low key, you won't last very long with any weapon otherwise.

Surefire does make hi-cap Saiga mags, they are more expensive and much harder to find that regular AK mags but if you don't want to go the mod route you still have hi cap options.

i was always under the impression that the SKS had detachable mags.were all the ones i'd seen modified??...because that a big issue.

5 or 10 round fixed mags are standard I believe. They can be modded to accept removable mags.

Yup, fixed mags are standard. Cool thing about the SKS is you can run stripper clips.

There was a model of SKS that took AK mags from the factory, I think Norinco produced them, don't know the availability of them, definately a lot rarer than your standard SKS.

Used to see SKS drums around every once in a while too. Think they were 75 rnd.

Yes and yes, but not to such a degree in either case that it would matter.
Unless one is looking at a Dragunov variant, you don't buy commie rifles for accuracy - but for reliability.

Fps (velocity) loss or gain from changes in barrel length usually only amount to 10-50 fps per inch of difference. 50 being a hell of a lot, and very unusual. Each gun is different, so you can easily have two identicle guns that shoot the same ammo at measurably different speeds. Same for accuracy.

Just tell your pops to buy them both, that way he won't regret not having the one he didn't get.

that means that all the SKS's i've been around must've been modded.i never knew that.glad i do now.thanks boys.

I have been wanting a AK type for some time now, I have done lots of reading and more or less setteled on the idea of a converted Saiga, with a little know how it can be a DIY project, or there are gun smiths to go to aswell . I love the fact that you can have it your way. Here is a guide for the DIY type converting a Saiga.
http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/index.htm

But before you go looking for "high-cap" mags make sure you are in 100% compliance with "922(r) compliance" laws.

Recently bought my first rifle, a pistol-grip converted Saiga. Can't get any more authentic than this IMHO. "IZHMASH Russian State Arms company, the parent company of AK-47, has used the design of its most famous model to develop various semi-automatics including Saiga, which is really a part of the family of semi-automatic shotguns and rifles."

[img][image]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/BareFootin/DSC_0149.jpg[/img][/image]

[img][image]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/BareFootin/DSC_0148.jpg[/img][/image]

Good looking buys

Very nice.

Beautiful AK there rackemup, I am jelous to say the least.
Is that a cross-breed super-tuck holster? how do you like it?

I never shot an SKS but I do own a Saiga 7.62 and am very happy with it.

You're right, Mr Bond. The Cross-Breed is a comfortable, functional holster. I'm trying to get comfortable wearing it at appendix with that big old XD-40.

[ar15.com] Get both[/ar15.com]

But seriously, you should get both.

The SKS is a rugged, reliable, fairly accurate*, and pretty inexpensive rifle. It's easy to field strip and maintain, it's not overly heavy, and the ammo is still somewhat affordable and easy to find.

The AK is rugged, reliable, fairly accurate*, and rapidly rising in cost. It's easy to field strip and maintain, it's very light, and ammo, well...see above.

Which to buy? Well, that depends, doesn't it? You won't be ill served by either in most cases.

The AK has the potential to be "banned" sooner than the SKS. The detachable 30 rd mags and the "scary" look make it a target of the gun grabbers. Prices on AK's have jumped since Obama's election. If you're going to buy an AK, buy it now (or more appropriately, you should have bought one by now...)

The SKS is a more benign looking rifle. It's not as "Scary" and as such, it avoided the last AWB. If there is another AWB, I wouldn't count on it being missed this time. Prices are still somewhat reasonable for the SKS, but you can't really find them for under $100 like you could just a few years ago.

I generally find the SKS pleasant to shoot, but it's kind of boring. The 10 rd. capacity doesn't bother me (oh, btw, don't mess with detachable mags for an SKS unless you have an SKS-M or SKS-d designed to take AK mags...it isn't worth teh trouble or reduced reliability), but it's sort of ho-hum shooting. If you're tall, you may find the length of pull too short (you can get butt pads for the stock). Accuracy is generally 3"-6" at 100 yds, depending on the ammo. My Russian SKS is a bit more accurate than my Yugo SKS's.

The AK can suffer from the same LOP shortness. The underfolding stocks aren't really comfortable, but the AK is more "fun" to shoot. They aren't good "bench" guns as most mags protrude quite a bit, and accuracy is about the same as the SKS.

Prices? SKS's cane be found between $200-$350 in most variations. You can find them for less if you really look, but prices are rising.

AK's have been going for $500-$2000 depending on the vintage, manufacturer, pre-ban status, etc. Prices have risen several hundred dollars since November. Century built WASR rifles that were $375 now routinely sell for $500-$600 or more.

Anyway, the final choice is yours. Do you want a traditional style rifle with a 10 rd capacity or do you want an "evil assault rifle"?

Like I said, I have both. My first rifle was a Russian SKS that I bought in 1995. Since then I've added 90+ rifles to my collection, including several SKS's and AK's. I would not hesitate to count on either should a SHTF or survival scenario occur. Add to that that both rifles were made for uneducated peasants to fire and maintain, and you've got perfect guns for new shooters too.


My Russian SKS I think it cost me ~$100 with accessories.




Yugo SKS. I bought two from AIM Surplus a few years back for $165 for the pair delivered (2002-2003). They're slightly more expensive now.


Another Yugo



Polish underfolder build. I bought the kit at Knob Creek from Sarco for $150 in '07, and I've got about $250 in the build, refinish, compliance parts, and receiver.



I didn't like the original Romanian furniture...so I bought a new handguard and refinished the wood a bit.

A 2008 Romanian kit build on a NoDakSpud receiver. I spent $99 on the kit and about $200 on the receiver, build, and compliance parts. This is my knockaround AK that cost less than a Century WASR-10

This is sort of an "AK" but kinda not... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

It's a Finnish Valmet M76 folder. Based on the Kalashnikov action, but with many improvements, it's a 5.56/.223 rifle that is the Rolls Royce of AK's. It does an honest 2 MOA at 100 with surplus ammo and shoots close to MOA with handloads. It's my baby <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Good luck with your search. Personally, I'm in the market for a nice AK74 clone in 5.45....

you guys rock.this info has been extremely helpful and exactly what i needed.

a friend of mine got an AK74 clone.problem was it had a 7.62 shell extractor or something.basically they take AK47's and switch the internal parts and barrel.

on the side of the receiver it had 7.62 scratched off and 5.45 scratched into the metal.

another friend had a SAIGA in 5.56 and what i liked was that it didnt look like a traditional AK therefor it wouldnt carry that astigmatism.i am going to look further into the SAIGA high-cap mag mod.

the gun show is coming up here in a couple weeks so we'll see what happens.

so is it safe to say that CENTURY ARMS WASR AK's are a good quality AK??

also,am i correct that as far as country of origin is concerned BULGARIA and ROMANIA are some of the better ones where CHINA and EGYPT arent as good??

WASR's are serviceable. They're not "great" but they do, by and large function fine. They are Romanian in origin, and were imported as single stack guns; that is they only take single stack magazines. Century modifies them in the US by opening up the mag well to take double stack, std AK mags.

My brother has one, and it's a decent shooter. Not gorgeous, but functional and reasonably accurate.

Romanian AK's are decent quality, but aren't thought of as "top tier" in most cases, but all depends on who did the build.

Bulgarian AK's generally are nice, particularly the pre ban milled guns.

Chinese guns are generally top shelf.

Egypt, not so much, but still a Maadi is not a gun I'd turn my nose up at.

Polish AK's are my favorite kit build guns. The Polish kits were all in spectacular condition, whether the PKMS or the Tantal guns...they were nice.

I've owned both, and I would go with the AK. The Saiga's aren't bad, but I don't think that they will accept a standard AK magazine, without work. If you can find an Arsenal AK that would be the one to get. I've had two, and they're one of the best AKs on the market. Good luck!

I should have bought one when they were cheap.

I did not take the time to read through all the posts in this thread so I am sorry if I repeat something that has already been said. I currently own both guns and from a reliability standpoint the AK-47is far superior to the SKS. I find that my SKS using surplus ammo is prone to jamming every 5 rounds or so. The internal mag has been adjusted many times and I have tried many different aftermarket detachable mags and still run into this problem. The AK-47 on the other hand is one of the finest assault rifles I have ever run across. its not nearly as accurate or flashy as many of the other rifles in this category but it packs plenty of punch and I a situation where your life counted on your rifle performing I would want an AK-47.
Justin Ellis

Hm. I find your experience with the SKS far from typical. By and large, most SKS feeding issues are tracked back to aftermarket magazines.

What kind of SKS do you have? What ammo are you using? Is the rifle fully cleaned of cosmolene and storage grease? Is the chamber clean? The extractor in good repair? The ejector? If it is a Yugo SKS, is the gas system tight (no leaks)?

Most folks find the SKS to be dead nuts reliable...maybe we can find your problem?

I've seen several SKS jam while I have never seen an AK jam. I'm not around either much though.

I've never seen a mini-14 jam either which now I consider a good buy stacked next to an AK.

Before it was ever fired it was field stripped and cleaned. It DID come with an aftermarket mag and if have since removed the stock box mag has been replaced. The tips on the ammo I have been is quite soft and I think that could be part of the issue. Honestly I have been slack as of late and not taking it to the range and probably could have had some of these issues worked out.
Justin