Here's a question about steels, if someone would be so kind as to educate me. When I was young my cousin was into Samurai swords. He'd tell me how they would fold and hammer out the metal thousands of times which made the steel virtually unbreakable...true?

Well that is true but the "unbreakable" aspect comes from the differential temper as well....coating the spine in clay and on the sabre grind sides gives a cooler temperature on those areas when heat treating the blade...so the hard carbon added to the middle of the folding process means the edge can take a high Rc heat treatment but the sides and spine become differentially tempered by the painting of clay on the blade.

Each swordsmith would have a different painting stroke and this adds to the steel giving the "hamon" to the blade...it acts like a "signature" to identify the swordsmith...and by having a lower heat treat on the spine it could absorb strikes from other blades when blocking and moving the opponents sword...but a full on strike to the spine has caused the sword which is struck to break...as have full power clashes of edge to edge...that is why a Samaurai would learn to cut with the blade on the back stroke....bringing the blade back towards him...the parry and thrust is done with the edge pointing down...Aido is a cool sport if you like Samaurai swords and want to learn how they were used...I think there are a number of Sensei masters on Hawaii for Aido...but the spelling can be varied in different country's...it is phonetic from the Japanese....and means basically Sword fighting...

Wow, THAT is an incredible explanation! Thank you Steel Fan! Great info! From your explanation, I can put the scenes of older Samurai movies together to understand why they strike like they do. I just thought it was part of the technique. I never though it had to do with the steel of the sword. You are true to your screen name!

Is Aido anything like Kendo or is it totally different in technique? I've always love the Samurai and sword play has always interested me but I wouldn't have the money (may have the time) to concentrate on really learning the art <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sorry to have taken this thread off track...to get back on...I was on the RAT website earlier in the evening (thinking of getting an Izula) and noticed they use a 1095 steel. How does (or does it?) differ from SR-101 and SR-77?

Aido is similar in foot work to Kendo but it is done with a proper sword and as such involves "Kata's" or sequences of movement through which practise gives skill and timing...you will also develop skills for "cutting" and this is learnt from actually cutting mediums such as straw or bamboo...fighting with a steel sword does not really happen in my experience but I am sure in Japan it may...it probably depends on the level of excellence you achieve...
interestingly a Samurai would learn this skill with a carved wooden sword...carved however like a Samurai sword not a Kendo sword...duels between Samurai sword masters often simply used wooden swords as they would seek to preserve their "family" steel sword from damage...and any strike by the wooden sword would be lethal if they so chose it to be...Miamoto Mushashi developed a technique using two swords which was considered disrespectful to the old ways...many challenged him as a point of honour...he would fight however with his wooden swords...and killed many of his opponents who were using a steel blade.

The safer form of training using a Bamboo sword...which size wise is more akin to using a "lance or spear" became Kendo...it is good for technique with your feet but the strike of the sword is different with a steel blade than a Bamboo kane...as you say from watching old films where the actors were using stunt "master swordsmen" for action sequences...you can tell that the strikes are different as they know of the need to preserve the sword from being broken.

But it is not readily appreciated that the carved wooden sword probably killed more people in combat duels than metal swords...these were very expensive back then and revered like a religous symbol...indeed the religion/philosophy of "Bushido" holds the sword as central to it...families have swords passed down father to son...

1095 is a more common steel - it's supposedly very prone to rust, but I've never had any problems. Cold Steel's Carbon V is a variation on 1095, and I believe Camillus used some of it too.

The heat treat is probably more important than the steel itself, and RAT seems to have a good heat treat, as they make some pretty tough, durable knives.

Woah SF! Your knowledge of the topic is staggering! Is it safe to say you study Aido? I'm not sure if you saw the movie "The Last Samurai" with Tom Cruise, but your mentioning of the wooden sword is seen there and matches up with what you say. It appears that the director tried to stick with reality as much as possible. I believe I saw an older Samurai move a couple of years ago where the Samurai, just like you said, only used a wooden sword. I wasn't sure if it was a thing of respect. You know, the enemy he's fighting wasn't worthy to die by his blade. The Samurai only used his metal sword on a couple of people. Great infomation <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

So would the difference in SR-101, 77 & 1095 be that they have different amounts of carbon in them making one tougher than the other or the toughness is primarily from the heat treat?

It's usually a bit more complicated than just the carbon, and unique trace elements definitely seem to play an important role. Heat treats are crazy important, though. I'm far from a steel expert, though, so I'll let someone with some more detailed knowledge chime in.

Toughness is dependant both on chemical composition and heat treatment...Knife Guy probably knows and has posted the most on this topic...do a search on his posts as I am sure he did a detailed breakdown on this topic not so long ago.

Certain trace elements can improve rusting...certain others improve strength and durability so the steel would not shatter or break. How high you take a heat treatment also impacts on shatter aspects and durability...and on how hard the steel is to sharpen and how long it may hold an edge. High Rc settings give a harder steel which holds an edge longer and usually to achieve this you need a good high carbon element to the steel...so carbon is very important...but as said above the best "super steel blades" often combine an inner core of high carbon steel and an outer core of a more durable and softer steel to give the blade strength...this is particularly so with powdered base steels which can be used as inner core edge steel for sharpness and then sandwiched either through a damascus process or done by a forge when pressing the steel with another steel for this effect. Most blades though use a singular composition of steel...not a blend...but can be capable of achieving similar effects through differential heat treatment which hardens the edge and inner core steel higher than the outer sides and spine.

In Busse knives SR101 has been given a differential heat treatment on some Swamp blades...Infi however does not seem to need it...although it has an usual composition for a steel and is the only one to contain Nitrogen...this combined with the special heat treatment seems to give a very high level of performance...SR77 is also uncommon in knives as it is usually used in Jackhammer bits...it is usually very hard to get it to take an edge needed on a knife and is designed to simply be tough...a special heat treatment to the steel enables this to be used by Scrapyard for knives but probably accounts for why SR77 holds an edge less well than Infi or SR101.

As to how the trace elements operate to give different "properties" to the steel...I would check some of KnifeGuys posts as he seems to follow this aspect quite well. For me I like a simple "overview" picture and that is how I remember the differences.

knifeguy knows the most on this subject. do a search. the search box is your friend.