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 Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288630
05/10/09 12:50 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660 |
The amount of bend will not tell you which has greater lateral strength - The force needed to achieve such bend will tell you lateral strength. If two steels will bend to 90 degrees before breaking but one takes twice as much force to get it there -- then it can be said that it has twice the lateral strength of the weaker steel. Make sense? The amount of bend may indicate lateral flexibility or something else though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Post deleted by Private Klink
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288631
05/10/09 12:54 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: eatingmuchface]
#288632
05/10/09 12:54 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,869
eatingmuchface
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,869 |
knotslip, I don't think the two are really "inversely proportional"
take INFI for example...
unless of course you just mean within one knife...
in that case, yes I believe that's generally how it works... but I believe Mike Stewart once told me that most steels kind of have a "sweet spot" where the toughness to strength ratio are highest.
paraphrasing def. but I believe what he was basically telling me was along those lines.
That also brings up the fact that SR's are differentially hardened.
Then it gets pretty confusing.
JYD number 52.
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
#288634
05/10/09 12:58 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660 |
Just trying to make heads and tails of it all. How do strength, toughness, edge-holding ability and hardness all relate to one another? As I understand them... Toughness - resistance to breaking, chipping, etc. - Softer steel = tougher steel - Less Carbon Strength - usually this is the term to explain edge holding ability. - Harder steel = stronger steel. Usually, this means that the steel contains more carbon - carbon makes steels harder/stronger. This means the steel won't bend or give as much as softer steels. Hardness - The Rockwell scale measures this and it is determined by how far a diamond tipped instrument can be pushed into the steel under a specific (high)pressure load. The depth of the penetration is measured and a Rockwell hardness number is given to the steel based on that measurement. Hope this helps. And, If I am incorrect on anything - please don't hesitate to let me know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
#288635
05/10/09 12:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660 |
Believe it or not, I think I understand both your points. So if I put two pictures side my side, one picture showing a bar of steel breaking at 90 degrees and another bar of steel breaking at, say, 135 degrees, can I infer anything at all about which bar possesses more lateral strength if I don't know how much force was applied to either bar? Yes, you can infer that one bar is more flexible. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288636
05/10/09 12:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,207
reconseed
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,207 |
bruce and emf - very interesint posts... i think i got someone's posts mixed up about toughness and strength. but bruce makes a good point about ?s being raised between the 2 steels. which is really tougher if sr101 breaks and sr77 becomes a pretzel??? great thinking... i hadnt even thought of this before. but one thing is not negotiable... sr101 holds an edge better. but in terms of brute force and smashing, etc, sr77 would be better... right?
JYD #59
1LT Clark Tucker
OD, Platoon LDR
US Army
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288637
05/10/09 01:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,207
reconseed
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,207 |
Just trying to make heads and tails of it all. How do strength, toughness, edge-holding ability and hardness all relate to one another? As I understand them... Toughness - resistance to breaking, chipping, etc. - Softer steel = tougher steel - Less Carbon Strength - usually this is the term to explain edge holding ability. - Harder steel = stronger steel. Usually, this means that the steel contains more carbon - carbon makes steels harder/stronger. This means the steel won't bend or give as much as softer steels. Hardness - The Rockwell scale measures this and it is determined by how far a diamond tipped instrument can be pushed into the steel under a specific (high)pressure load. The depth of the penetration is measured and a Rockwell hardness number is given to the steel based on that measurement. Hope this helps. And, If I am incorrect on anything - please don't hesitate to let me know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> so if this is correct, then how does INFI fair??? its hard.... yet soft... ??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
JYD #59
1LT Clark Tucker
OD, Platoon LDR
US Army
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
#288638
05/10/09 01:01 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,869
eatingmuchface
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,869 |
Believe it or not, I think I understand both your points. So if I put two pictures side my side, one picture showing a bar of steel breaking at 90 degrees and another bar of steel breaking at, say, 135 degrees, can I infer anything at all about which bar possesses more lateral strength if I don't know how much force was applied to either bar? I would think so bld. I think we all are seeing it from the same point of view now. I think we should all take a metallurgy class. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
JYD number 52.
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: reconseed]
#288639
05/10/09 01:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,398
el clintor
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,398 |
INFI is a mystery of science, space, and time.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" />
JYD #72
"Long live the brotherhood of the Yard!"
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: eatingmuchface]
#288641
05/10/09 01:04 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660 |
knotslip, I don't think the two are really "inversely proportional"
take INFI for example...
unless of course you just mean within one knife...
in that case, yes I believe that's generally how it works... but I believe Mike Stewart once told me that most steels kind of have a "sweet spot" where the toughness to strength ratio are highest.
paraphrasing def. but I believe what he was basically telling me was along those lines.
That also brings up the fact that SR's are differentially hardened.
Then it gets pretty confusing. By inversely proportional, I mean that given any particular knife or steel - as you make it stronger - it will become less tough. Or if you make a steel tougher you are making it less strong (You cannot increase one without decreasing the other). It is impossible to have both at maximum - that would be the perfect steel. Infi is great and it is strong and tough but to go along with what I'm saying - if they tried to make it tougher - it would invariably lose strength. And, if they tried to make it stronger it would lose toughness...make sense?
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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