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 Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: reconseed]
#288642
05/10/09 01:05 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,869
eatingmuchface
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sr101 holds an edge better. but in terms of brute force and smashing, etc, sr77 would be better... right? not really that simple... because the sr77 may deform more than the sr101... which has a STRONGER edge. (though it may get some chips?) also, when knotslip say's hard and soft... some steels can just act "harder" or "softer" depending on their strength and toughness. INFI has BOTH qualities... and that's what makes it so amazing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
JYD number 52.
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288643
05/10/09 01:06 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
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KnotSlip
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With Infi - they have just found a good mix and HT that gives them good strength and toughness- the same laws apply to Infi though if you try to make it stronger or tougher. You have to stay on one steel to think about these principles correctly. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288644
05/10/09 01:08 AM
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Posts: 2,869
eatingmuchface
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Believe it or not, I think I understand both your points. So if I put two pictures side my side, one picture showing a bar of steel breaking at 90 degrees and another bar of steel breaking at, say, 135 degrees, can I infer anything at all about which bar possesses more lateral strength if I don't know how much force was applied to either bar? Yes, you can infer that one bar is more flexible. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> which would be toughness wouldn't it? because toughness is how much deformation something can take? but i guess you couldn't tell much about strength.
JYD number 52.
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Post deleted by Private Klink
#288645
05/10/09 01:09 AM
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Anonymous
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: eatingmuchface]
#288646
05/10/09 01:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
Junk Yard Dog
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sr101 holds an edge better. but in terms of brute force and smashing, etc, sr77 would be better... right? not really that simple... because the sr77 may deform more than the sr101... which has a STRONGER edge. (though it may get some chips?) also, when knotslip say's hard and soft... some steels can just act "harder" or "softer" depending on their strength and toughness. INFI has BOTH qualities... and that's what makes it so amazing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Really, all steels have both qualities - but usually one wins out over the other. Think of it as a bar slider with strength on one side and toughness in the other. Each steel moves that slider to some position to achieve its strength and toughness. Just remember you can't use this slider to compare steels- only to describe a particular steels toughness/strength relationship. Infi sounds like it's slider is probably near the center of the sliding scale.
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288647
05/10/09 01:12 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,869
eatingmuchface
Junk Yard Dog
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By inversely proportional, I mean that given any particular knife or steel - as you make it stronger - it will become less tough. Or if you make a steel tougher you are making it less strong (You cannot increase one without decreasing the other). It is impossible to have both at maximum - that would be the perfect steel. Infi is great and it is strong and tough but to go along with what I'm saying - if they tried to make it tougher - it would invariably lose strength. And, if they tried to make it stronger it would lose toughness...make sense?
I understand.. but each steel has a hardness where toughness and strength are at a higher ratio to each other (I guess?) than at other hardness's... not that BOTH are MAXIMIZED. maybe at 60 RC a knife has high strength and pretty low toughness... but at 58 RC the strength is slightly compromised, while toughness is now way better.
JYD number 52.
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Post deleted by Private Klink
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288648
05/10/09 01:13 AM
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Anonymous
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
#288649
05/10/09 01:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,207
reconseed
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OK, let's see if I've got this at all.
Strength is a measure of how much gradually increasing weight can be applied to a bar of steel before it breaks.
Toughness is a measure of how much instantaneous force a bar of steel can absorb before it breaks.
Am I on the right track? im perplexed with bruce <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
JYD #59
1LT Clark Tucker
OD, Platoon LDR
US Army
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288650
05/10/09 01:16 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
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"which would be toughness wouldn't it? because toughness is how much deformation something can take?" Yes. Another part of toughness though is also the ability to retain it's shape. No one wants a knife that will bend to 30 degrees and stay bent. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Also - If bending was all you were concerned about - just don't heat treat or anneal or anything. you will have a very tough and flexible steel pretzel. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
#288651
05/10/09 01:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,869
eatingmuchface
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hmmm... maybe I missed something... but I didn't get that.
I still keep thinking
Strength: how much force it takes to bend the steel.
toughness: how much deformation before the steel breaks.
maybe it's overly simplistic... but I think for the most part it's accurate...
and I don't want to over think it too much... (even though we kind of already have started)
EDIT: this was reffering to bld's post.
also knotslip, yes, very true.
that's why a knife CAN be TOO tough...
If it has some strength too, then it will spring back after deformation better won't it?
Last edited by eatingmuchface; 05/10/09 01:19 AM.
JYD number 52.
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Post deleted by Private Klink
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288652
05/10/09 01:17 AM
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Anonymous
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
#288653
05/10/09 01:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,398
el clintor
Junk Yard Dog
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or a three pound sledgehammer slamming against it...
JYD #72
"Long live the brotherhood of the Yard!"
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