???
But toughness and strength describe how the steel reacts...
and toughness and strength will depend on the grain structure and hardness...
They will define how tough or strong the knife is.

and we are really just talking of the definitions of each, really... and trying to use examples.

EDIT that was in response to mag.

so wait... mag you're saying bruce is wrong?

and i was talking about before when bruce was talking about knives having more "give" and I thought if a knife had more "give" it would be tougher. (more malleable)

knotslip, yeah I understand what you're saying.

If you are going to measure toughness by flexibility alone then I have a rubber band that is tougher than any knife ever made. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

how about we change the definition of strength for a moment to the ability to support a load without failure? so now we can imagine bar stock mounted like a spring board or pirate ship plank with a load at the end. failure at the task of supporting the load can occur if it bends or flexes and the load falls or if it snaps.

same conclusion, tough or not. course i don't control definitions so i dunno if that's true.

yes! knotslip that's what I was thinking. which is why all knives have more strength than a rubber band.
and that strength will help them from taking a set.

actually.. i think i disagree with you bruce.

We may be getting farther away.

Will it? I would think sr77 would bounce more bullets off of it.
and sr101 would take more force to bend it. (though if we're thinking of strength as the breaking point idk then)

Please stick to thinking about these concepts with 1 steel only. We aren't using these to compare steels. So, yes Bruce you are on the right track...Sort of. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"As hardness and bending ability increase, impact resistance decreases.
As impact resistance increases, hardness and bending ability decrease."

Concerning 1 particular steel (any steel)...
hardness and bending ability cannot both increase together - as hardness increases - bending ability or flexibility has to decrease. But, if you take that part out- then Yes, as bending ability (toughness) increases, impact resistance (strength) decreases.

Same holds true for the second one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

ohhhhhhhhhh now i see the picture in your head. annealed, i don't think there will be a difference in toughness or strength between the steels. hardened to 59hrc, i can see your picture working. after that, i think we go back to either steel failing under the same conditions.

are we only considering 'sweet spot' scenarios?

Uhhh no Bruce - the other way around...SR-77 is tougher (softer/more deformable) and SR-101 is stronger (harder/less deformable). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

are you guys using bend and flex interchangeably? flexing is returning to true, bending takes a set.