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 Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
#288702
05/10/09 02:01 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660 |
Correct. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Post deleted by Private Klink
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288703
05/10/09 02:05 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288704
05/10/09 02:06 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,009
Magnum22
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,009 |
Here is basically what I am trying to get across...
Lets say I have a piece of SR-77 - By HT'ing it I can make it stronger (more heat) or tougher (less heat) - but as I increase one - the other is going to be compromised. But you have to think of this with one steel- not comparing 2 steels like 77 to 101.
i'm with you. there are complications that come from grain structure, both tightness and length, inclusion of impurities (such as undissolved carbon), carbide fracture, and the tempering of the hardened blade that can change things. hypothetically, two annealed blades of the same mythical super steel, say M420V, are heated to austenitic temperature. the iron forms a new lattice structure in which the carbon content becomes soluble and you now have a tight, uniform, rigid grain structure without impurities (not realistic). the pieces are quenched differently. piece F is given a fast quench, maintaining a very rigid structure in the martensite and then tempered repeatedly to achieve a hardness of 56HRC. piece S is quenched a little slower, without tempering and achieves the same hardness with a more relaxed grain (hypothetical!). it's slightly normalized rather than tempered. now we've got the same hardness from the same steel, but they're gonna behave differently.
JYD #7
Preserve the Yard.
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288705
05/10/09 02:08 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,009
Magnum22
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,009 |
Correct. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> i have to disagree.
JYD #7
Preserve the Yard.
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
#288706
05/10/09 02:09 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,207
reconseed
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,207 |
OK. Now let's go back to the inevitable comparison that is at the very heart of this thread. To use your definitions, based on the current heat treatment Jerry applies to his alloys, SR77 will bend more than SR101 will. So SR77 is TOUGHER than SR101. But SR101 will hold an edge longer than SR77 will, so SR101 is STRONGER than SR77. Right? i think you have it man... im tracking with you at least.
JYD #59
1LT Clark Tucker
OD, Platoon LDR
US Army
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: Joe Fowler]
#288707
05/10/09 02:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,675
Prince of Peace
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,675 |
SR-77 IS Scrap Yard steel,always has been,always will be. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> Jackhammers use it without Dans heat treat and they last through some of the worlds hardest materials. My Scrappers in SR-77 have ALWAYS been more than adequate for heavy use that I dish out. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Let the Swamp keep their 101,they need something to call their own. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Scrap Yard calls SR-77 its own and it should continue to. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> I need to get a buffer and several pads so I can put a mirror polish on my Dog Father. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> SR-77 for Scrappers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> Peace.
Some people just never learn.
JYD #44
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: Magnum22]
#288708
05/10/09 02:15 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660 |
"i'm with you. there are complications that come from grain structure, both tightness and length, inclusion of impurities (such as undissolved carbon), carbide fracture, and the tempering of the hardened blade that can change things." True but still- as you increase strength - you lose toughness and vice versa. "hypothetically, two annealed blades of the same mythical super steel, say M420V, are heated to austenitic temperature. the iron forms a new lattice structure in which the carbon content becomes soluble and you now have a tight, uniform, rigid grain structure without impurities (not realistic). the pieces are quenched differently. piece F is given a fast quench, maintaining a very rigid structure in the martensite and then tempered repeatedly to achieve a hardness of 56HRC. piece S is quenched a little slower, without tempering and achieves the same hardness with a more relaxed grain (hypothetical!). it's slightly normalized rather than tempered. now we've got the same hardness from the same steel, but they're gonna behave differently. " Again True, but you're just using quenching to adjust strength and toughness and as one increases the other decreases. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
#288709
05/10/09 02:16 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,009
Magnum22
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,009 |
OK. Now let's go back to the inevitable comparison that is at the very heart of this thread. To use your definitions, based on the current heat treatment Jerry applies to his alloys, SR77 will bend more than SR101 will. So SR77 is TOUGHER than SR101. But SR101 will hold an edge longer than SR77 will, so SR101 is STRONGER than SR77. Right? where is wear resistance in this picture?
JYD #7
Preserve the Yard.
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: reconseed]
#288710
05/10/09 02:16 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660 |
OK. Now let's go back to the inevitable comparison that is at the very heart of this thread. To use your definitions, based on the current heat treatment Jerry applies to his alloys, SR77 will bend more than SR101 will. So SR77 is TOUGHER than SR101. But SR101 will hold an edge longer than SR77 will, so SR101 is STRONGER than SR77. Right? i think you have it man... im tracking with you at least. That is correct.
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288711
05/10/09 02:18 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,009
Magnum22
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,009 |
Again True, but you're just using quenching to adjust strength and toughness and as one increases the other decreases. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> i was trying to break the positive correlation you drew between hardness and strength.
JYD #7
Preserve the Yard.
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: Prince of Peace]
#288712
05/10/09 02:19 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,207
reconseed
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,207 |
SR-77 IS Scrap Yard steel,always has been,always will be. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> Jackhammers use it without Dans heat treat and they last through some of the worlds hardest materials. My Scrappers in SR-77 have ALWAYS been more than adequate for heavy use that I dish out. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Let the Swamp keep their 101,they need something to call their own. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Scrap Yard calls SR-77 its own and it should continue to. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> I need to get a buffer and several pads so I can put a mirror polish on my Dog Father. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> SR-77 for Scrappers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> Peace. Amen PoP! I concur brother!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" />
JYD #59
1LT Clark Tucker
OD, Platoon LDR
US Army
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288713
05/10/09 02:19 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660 |
Wear resistance/edge retention is basically related to strength/hardness. When they talk about blade steels and their strength they are referring to edge retention/wear resistance. That is my understanding of it. Tougher/softer steels will wear faster than stronger/harder steels.
Last edited by KnotSlip; 05/10/09 03:07 AM.
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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