Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288714
05/10/09 02:23 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
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Sorry Mag- this thread is moving so fast I don't even know what correlation you are referring to. lol <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I'm not sure I said that there was a positive correlation between the two...? Only that stronger steels are harder than softer steels and that toughness and hardness cannot both increase simultaneously. Please let me know what you were referring to...
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288715
05/10/09 02:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,009
Magnum22
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
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Wear resistance/edge retention is basically strength. When they talk about blade steels and their strength they are referring to edge retention/wear resistance. That is my understanding of it. Tougher/softer steels will wear faster than stronger/harder steels. the size and concentration of the carbides plays a huge role in this and you can have carbides of different size in the same steel and carbides of the same size in different steels.
JYD #7
Preserve the Yard.
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288716
05/10/09 02:24 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
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Thanks Bruce. I thought I might hit JYD status in this thread alone. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Still might.
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288717
05/10/09 02:31 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
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Junk Yard Dog
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the size and concentration of the carbides plays a huge role in this and you can have carbides of different size in the same steel and carbides of the same size in different steels. Mag- There are many many factors here to consider but the thing to keep in mind is that the laws and relationships of these parameters still interact the same. HT, Quenching, alloy make-up, carbide concentrations and grain sizes all make a difference but they don't change the laws or behaviors between these attributes. If it were possible- we would have a supersteel that could never be broken and could hold an edge indefinitely. Why? Because we could increase strength and toughness continually and simultaneously. the result would be a super-tough and super-strong steel. Infi is maybe the closest thing to this currently but the same laws still apply. Thoughts?
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288718
05/10/09 02:31 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,009
Magnum22
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Junk Yard Dog
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As steel gets tougher (softer) it gets weaker and as you make steel stronger (harder) it gets more brittle (less tough). Toughness - resistance to breaking, chipping, etc. - Softer steel = tougher steel - Less Carbon
Strength - usually this is the term to explain edge holding ability. - Harder steel = stronger steel. Usually, this means that the steel contains more carbon - carbon makes steels harder/stronger. This means the steel won't bend or give as much as softer steels.
Hope this helps. And, If I am incorrect on anything - please don't hesitate to let me know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> seems like the point here.
JYD #7
Preserve the Yard.
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: Magnum22]
#288719
05/10/09 02:35 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
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Junk Yard Dog
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Ahh, I was just trying to explain that tougher steels are softer and stronger steels are harder. No correlation between strength and hardness -see my reference to ceramic, glass and diamonds. I pointed out that they were all harder than steel but not stronger - hence, no positive correlation.
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288720
05/10/09 02:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
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I think we are, for the most part, on the same page. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288721
05/10/09 02:39 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,009
Magnum22
Junk Yard Dog
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Mag-
There are many many factors here to consider but the thing to keep in mind is that the laws and relationships of these parameters still interact the same. HT, Quenching, alloy make-up, carbide concentrations and grain sizes all make a difference but they don't change the laws or behaviors between these attributes.
If it were possible- we would have a supersteel that could never be broken and could hold an edge indefinitely. Why? Because we could increase strength and toughness continually and simultaneously. the result would be a super-tough and super-strong steel. Infi is maybe the closest thing to this currently but the same laws still apply. Thoughts?
while all the other super steels are trying to cram as much carbon and vanadium and whatever the hell else into their structure, jerry took a relatively low amount of carbon and a little nitrogen (i think) and created the best steel ever. my other favorite, 12c27, is also at the lower register of the high carbon range. these two steels changed the way i look at chemical composition and heat treats. i think they break convention and manage to increase all desirable attributes, some more than others, without increasing the undesirable.
JYD #7
Preserve the Yard.
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288722
05/10/09 02:39 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,688
MRpink
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I can't believe how you long you guys have been going at this thread!
JYD #56
Scrap Yard Sword Club #00
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: Magnum22]
#288723
05/10/09 02:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,009
Magnum22
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forgive me. i just focused in on: Harder steel = stronger steel.
JYD #7
Preserve the Yard.
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: Magnum22]
#288724
05/10/09 02:43 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,660
KnotSlip
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Junk Yard Dog
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NP <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
KS
JYD #93
"Life's too short..."
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Re: Poll: Scrap Yard SR77 vs SR101
[Re: KnotSlip]
#288725
05/10/09 02:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,177
Tikigod
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Junk Yard Dog
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I will have to reread this thread in the morning.... Several times...
JYD #80
[i]Live like you mean it.
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