This thread makes my head hurt. We all know that both steels have worked well in hard use Busse-made knives. We know that SR101 takes and holds an edge a bit better than SR77, but that the edge holding of SR77 is not bad at all. Now we know that more people who took the poll prefer SR101. I'm hoping SR101 will be the new standard steel for SYKCO. It's not like the Camp Tramps and Chopweilers are shattering all over the place.

Thats part of what makes this so hard is these two steels are both very good and very close when it comes to strength and toughness. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you watch Noss's destruction tests - it is always the hardest steels that crack, break or shatter. That's because with hardness you introduce more brittleness.

This thread makes my head hurt too and my fingers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

so you woulda been that guy who said "the earth is flat you fools!"

Nope. As far as I know no one ever proved the Earth to be flat - That would be impossible since we know it is a sphere. Hard to say what I would have done in that time without having been there..

On this particular subject it seems many have their opinions...and I can't change mine until I can convince my brain that it is wrong. It would be easier to convince me that I am wrong about the 2 steels but correct on what makes a knife tough or strong. But, I haven't seen anything yet to convince me that my thinking is wrong on that issue and when I go back and re-read threads concerning this very topic , I see many folks are of the same opinion as I am...Folks like SteelFan, Pittman, KnifeGuy, etc. So, there is some confusion here but I'm not certain where it lies.

I also can't take someones word for something jsut based on their credentials...There are many doctors and scientists that have been wrong even though they are considered experts in their fields. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I guess I'm stubborn too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

That quote is false.

A method for forming the steel article having high hardness and higher toughness includes carburizing the steel at a temperature and for a period of time in an atmosphere having a carbon potential sufficient to form carbides and austenite on at least one preselected surface of the steel, and then quenching the carburized steel to a temperature below the Ar1 temperature and above the Ms temperature of the steel material for a time sufficient to transform a major portion of the austenite in the preselected surface area micro-structure to lower bainite.

The steel bar,sheet,roll now will have a equivalent Knoop 500 gram "unit of measure used in steel production" maximum particle hardness of at least 900 and a Charpy "cryo unit" that is unnotched.
A room temperature toughness of at least 50 Joules, thereby providing an article having both high hardness and toughness properties.

I know that is a lot of mumbo jumbo to most of us but it is a formula. A fact that this is not only being done,but easily and readily done.

This is only one formula for increasing steel hardness and toughness at the same time.Other simple formulas include proprietary heat and cryo treatments by various steel producers and their respective end users like Scrap Yard Knives. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" />

It is easy to do and done by almost every major steel manufacture. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

But I DO love the exciting debates in this thread! Had to throw in my two cents. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Peace.

PoP-

I completely understand what that is saying and the statement you point out is "false" if taken literally and in a literal context. ALL steel is made softer/harder, tougher and stronger in the early creation processes. Annealing makes them softer, HT makes them harder, etc. etc. I am by no means a metallurgist or a bladesmith or a materials engineer or expert. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But speaking in generalities regarding these relationships, toughness and hardness typically don't both increase together as you have to forgo some hardness/strength to make a blade/steel tougher. So, without getting into deep discussions about Cementites, ferrites, austenites, pearlite and Martensite - I will just leave it at that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Although, one should know that martensite is steel in its hardest form but it is unusable because it is also VERY brittle - Not tough - so further heating is required to toughen/soften it up.

Thanks for the response! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

and we know that SR77 is stronger than Sr101... Im with Bruce and Mag on this one... Well, really i guess im with Jerry and Dan - the PROS on the matter.

My dear Slipknot friend,I couldn't agree more! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The end result is SR-77 is Scrap Yard steel and SR-101 is Swamp steel and they should keep it that way! That's what the poll was 15 pages ago! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Although I am looking forward to my new S-5's with more than eager anticipation. They could announce the closing sale day any day and I would then begin counting days to hawk the mailbox. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

All this fuss over a Scrap Yard knife in Swamp Rat steel. I LOVE IT! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

S-5 is going to be soooooo sweet eh? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Peace.

I'm with ya. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I can't wait to get my S5. This darn thread has gone for so long I forgot what got us on the strength versus toughness discussion in the first place. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

either way, your not going to break either one unless your really trying, both of the steels you can depend on. and in that case, I'm gonna stick with the poll question, and take my pick of 101, I'd always rather have my knife cut a little longer,

ah...just as expected the SR101 is a bit ahead of the SR77.