KnifeGuy, both of those blades pictured remind me a bit of the SAR4s.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ... Which "Both"????? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Are you talking about both SHBA's: one with choil as produced and my photo-chopped modified version without?
Seems like a small modification and they are pretty similar. But, the "Improvement" is HUGE IMO. I am not even sure if I would be interested in the SHBA at a GOOD price if it had the sharpening choil. Whereas I would be ALL OVER the SHBA with no choil. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />
If so, I agree to some extent:
Not my pics, I don't own either, but somebody else (can't remember whom I harvested these pics from) thinks the SAR4 could be converted into something similar to the SHBA.
...... Only problem is that it looks like it would be hard to get rid of the choil. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
.... But, at least by removing a LOT of the handle, the mods would improve the weight and balance of the SAR4. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />
I personally WAY prefer the SHBA over the SAR4. But, STILL don't want the choil.
Personally, I am not big on choils. I do see how they "can" make sharpening easier.
The reason I sold my Game Warden is because the choil was always snagging on tissue when cleaning deer. The year I had the GW, it was used on around 10-15 deer and when you're cold bloody and tired the little things like snagging kinda grate on you.
Hmmm, I must need therapy..... for me, just seeing that dang choil in pictures and "Thinking" about it GRATES on me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Personally, I HATE small non-functioning choils that are only intended for sharpening and not big enough for a finger choil - ESPECIALLY on smaller knives.
I WISH Jerry would change his fixation on these sharpening choils on smaller knives. Just drop them period. And if a "Finger" choil is justified on "Larger" knives, fine, but make it functional and preferably closer into the handles. Many of the choils on larger knives have historically been pretty far out from the handle and eating into the functional blade - which is a double-negative. Too much reach when choked up doesn't feel as natural <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbdn.gif" alt="" /> and too much wasted blade. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbdn.gif" alt="" />
I guess if sharpening on a stone or similar, a sharpening choil might be something "Some" people want.
*** BUT, Jerry's sharpening choils are WAY too large for just sharpening choil and yet still way too small for finger choils on certain knives like the AD, GW, Meaner, SAR4, SHBA and many others.
And "I" would STILL rather NOT have a sharpening choil and I personally don't find a need for a sharpening choil.
Sharpening choil pros:
1) Helps prevent rubbing stone, belt, strop or similar sharpening device up against guard. ...
THAT IS IT! No other pros! ... Not even aesthetics IMO if designed well. I think my photo-chopped/modified concept of the SHBA looks WAY nicer than the actual knife with sharpening choil.
Similarly, I think my photo-chopped/modified concept of the AD without choil looks WAY better (AND more functional!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />)
But, I would MUCH Rather deal with some rubbing when sharpening and scratches caused by such. If I intend to use the knife (which is the "Idea"!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> , the improved functionality of the knife is MUCH greater value than the annoyance of some rub marks on my guard on a "USER". I have a LOT of knives where the sharpened edge goes right to the plunge line. Over time, typically the edge at the plunge line gets a little sharpened radius at the plunge line. So what!..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> - Still cuts GREAT!... and doesn't snag.
If the plunge line AND sharpened edge were to go right up to the guard (or Talon Hole) like on my photo-chopped SHBA, the guard/Talon Hole serves as a stop/guide for the material when push cutting and a stop that doesn't snag in most other cutting situations. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />
Sharpening choil cons (WAY more Cons than Pros and each cone individually outweighs the single pro of a sharpening choil IMO):
1) Snags material when slice cutting as it rides up and fall into choil
2) Or similarly, but still Snags material when you are push cutting up close to blade that falls into choil <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
3) Wastes otherwise useful blade area
3) Pushes sharpened blade area too far away from grip - ESPECIALLY Jerry's over-sized sharpening choils! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
The GW, AD, Meaner and even the SAR4 should NOT have "Sharpening" choils AT ALL - IMO.
The GW and AD with their short blades should not have ANY choil period.
I personally feel the Meaner, SAR4 and SHBA would be better served without ANY type of choil at all, but I can appreciate where some people might like a useable finger choil to choke up on. The SAR4 is debatable. A finger choil might be fine if the Talon Hole were dropped (or considerably smaller) and it had a "Small" guard.
The SS4 is basically a Meaner with a usable finger choil (The SS4 is WAY BETTER than the Meaner IMO!)
And the SAR4 is jut about as long in blade as the S5 which has a finger choil.
The SHBA is 4.5" in blade and I think it would be better without a choil.
The RMD has a 5.25" blade. I think I might drop the point on my RMD to be more like my S5. When I drop my RMD's tip, I will loose right at about 0.25" and my modified RMD will have RIGHT at the same blade length as my S5.
I will take either the S5 or RMD ANY Day and EVERY day over the SAR4 or SHBA if those Busse's have the over-sized sharpening choil - which they do. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I passed on the SAR4 mainly because of the choil: too large for a sharpening choil and to small for a finger choil.
But, while I have not handled the SAR4, I am concerned about the handle size, weight and balance.
From comparing pics of the SAR4 to the RMD and knowing how well the RMD's handle feels and balances, I am quite concerned that the SAR4's handle will be too heavy for my preferences.
In comparing dimensions:
Ratmandu (micarta)....= 10.0 ounces; .189" thick; 5.3125" blade; 10.5" oal
Ratmandu (G10)........= 11.0 ounces; .189" thick; 5.3125" blade; 10.5" oal
SAR4 LE (micarta).....= 14.0 ounces; .220" thick; 4.875" blade; 10.75" oal
SAR4 LE (G10).........= 15.0 ounces; .220" thick; 4.875" blade; 10.75" oal
So, about a 1/2" shorter blade and still 0.25" longer oal. Some of that is RMD with "Functional" finger choil vs. SAR4 with worthless sharpening choil. But, most is LONG and HEAVY handle in the SAR4. Also, the .220" tang is going to add a lot of weight in the handle. Based on specs and pics, it seems obvious the SAR4's handle is WAY heavier than the RMD's.
Then if that wasn't enough, I saw pics of the SAR4 compared to the Skinny ASH. And realized the SAR4 with a 4.875" blade weighs as much as my HR or Skinny ASH which are both PLENTY chunky IMO and offer WAY more function than the SAR4.
Hell Razor.......= 14.75 ounces; .1875” thick; 6.625” blade; 12.75” oal (est.)
Skinny ASH (ASH1)= 15.25 ounces; .1875” thick; 6.4” blade; 12.0” oal
Also, I have large hands and find the Skinny ASH's handle to be "Plenty" roomy.
But, the SAR4' handle appears like it would be more suitable to fit a SARSQUATCH! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
The SAR4 would be about the best all around hunter Busse has made IMHO. We will see...
Hmmm.... to each their own. I still do NOT want a sharpening choil, but I think the SHBA is a better design than the SAR4 by a good margin in my book. Eliminate the choil on the SHBA like shown in my photo-chop and skeletonize the tang and re-release the SHBA with these modifications at a "Reasonable" price... or just sell it in SR-101 at half the price of INFI. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> ... and I think you have a pretty good winner. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />
Also, the SAR4 costs WAY more than my RMD and I think the RMD is a WAY BETTER knife design. I "CAN" modify my RMD to have a bit more dropped point. And I might research into having the tang skeletonized by a local water-jet cutter if I can get it done cheap enough.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
My RMD already blows the SAR4 away IMO, but with those Modifications and still way cheaper = No comparison IMO.
So, I passed on the SAR4 for MANY reasons.
I wish maybe I would have just kept it for an EDC though sometimes. But again, a folder works for most my day-to-day GW sized tasks.
I am a folder for EDC guy. Sure, some fixed bladed knives have better feel or proportions than many folders. But, I have some very nice folders that fit and feel fine. Sure, a fixed blade is tougher. But, I don't pry with my folders and have never had a folder break. I know their limits and haven't needed to surpass those limits. Whenever I can, I try to use the appropriate tool for a job. And folders are not meant for some of the things I see people use them for (prying, screwdrivers, etc. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />)
But, folders are VERY convenient for carry. They carry WAY more compact and easier. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> And so many good folders open VERY easily with one hand these day. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> So, folders are really a no brainer for EDC for me.
I never had a GW. But, I did have a Rat Warden and I couldn't stand the handle on the Rat Warden. I didn't like the skeleton frame without scales (*** although - I do SERIOUSLY wish some other knives had skeletonized tangs - under scales <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />)
The Rat Warden handle just did not fit or feel worth a crap to my hands.
And from comparing pics, the GW and Rat Warden had very similar handle shape and size.
For me, if I want a small utility / Skinner knife, Busse just honestly doesn't have a good option smaller than the Vex - IMO.
Honestly, since I carry folders for EDC and prefer 4" blade or larger for trail and woods, I don't really carry much smaller than the Vex. But, I own a few.
And Bark River totally "Dominates" over Busse for design in this catagory. Sorry.
The Mini Skinner 6.375" oal and Mini Northstar 7.125" oal are both much better IMO than the GW at a small fraction of the price and come satin, full convex and with a sheath. I had to just slightly grind the index finger groove forward for a bit more room on my Mini Skinner. But, now a great fit for it's size and better fit in handle with similar sized cutting edge in a smaller package vs. the GW.
And even WAY better still (as much as I LOVE my Canadian Special) is my Lil Canadian which is a 7.125" version of my Canadian Special. The Lil Canadian is EASILY my favorite sub- 8" fixed bladed knife. Full four finger and VERY comfortable grip (much more secure and roomy than the GW), Great shaped 3.125" blade with more usable edge than the GW - again, full convex, satin, A2 blade and again with a sheath.
Considering the GW is about 7.0" vs. the Lil Canadian at 7.125", they compare and the Lil Canadian SPANKS the GW IMO. The Lil Canadian (as with the Canadian Special) is (like the Vex) ALL function! No wasted space frills like the smaller Busse blades with sharpening choils and Talon Holes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Mini Northstar, MPLE and Lil Canadian:
Then for other 6.5" - 7.5" oal options, there is the Highland Special 7.625", Woodland Special 6.87", Imp 6.125", Kephart Companion 6.775", Mini Kephart 7.6", Custom Canadian Special (a bit larger at about 8.15", but great knife - I have 3 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />), etc.
The Spyderco Mule is a little larger and good general design, but build your own scales project blade. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
The Greco Dangler at about 6.875" is a good design even if not as nicely finished as many others.
I am sure I could go on.....
I have TRIED to offer ideas and suggestions to help improve Busse and kin smaller knives (I would LOVE to see the AD/BAD without a choil!), but..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />... I guess Jerry sees things differently. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
.