Ok, I guess I'll go the filter route. the First need Purifier has an operating temp of 33 to about 100 and something. I'm worried that it's possible to have some moisture in it and it'll freeze and bust or that it may get more than 110 or even more in the vehicle. I guess I could keep it in the house, but that at least in my thinking would defeat the purpose of having it with us when we're out and about. Ok, now for the biggie. What would be a good way to store a couple three or four ounces of bleach without it leaking out over everything? I have a couple of small bottles but they have a paper type "seal", sort of like the original clorox bottles have. Would that work? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

depends on the system i have with them..... and the water i have to deal with .... i have seen bad water and ok water and frankly sparkling water but still treat...

in my mini kit , i have coffee filter prefilters, and tablets , and most water is boiled before used....

in my hiking pack
i have a gravity bladder system that can gets me a couple liters fairly easy and its tiny.. with 1 dirty bag and a bag to put it in , and one on my back to filter into... as well as tabs...

in my truck
right now i have a few gallons of water , and im working on getting a bigger set up with a pressure syphon

in the cabin... right now theres a still and a large in palce filter sets ready to be put in once i have the land ... with a 100 gallon holding tank.... and clorine.... and a supply of sealed carbon filters and membraine

the more i researched water treatment it has many variables.... as i can carry more weight i carry better gear taht can take contaminates down quickly.... and produce a larger volume of safe-ish water... its very hard to be 100% sure mind you. but i did have a couple really bad run ins with backpackers plauges while in the boy scouts and i hope never to repeat it.

I carry my filter in an insulated bottle holder. I originally did this for padding in case of a significant fall. However, good insulation will prevent freezing.

I have kept a filter in the bottle holder attached to the outside of the pack for quick access during the summer, but when <40, I'll put it inside the pack. I'll put it deeper inside the pack surrounded by clothes and sleeping bag if much colder.

Think about the differences between a bottle of water left outside the tent all night, one kept inside the tent at night, and one kept in the sleeping bag during the night.

I would like to have some detailed temperature ranges, but all I have is varied experience. Maybe I haven't experienced serious cold weather conditions like some on here, but I have spent nights out with windchill of approximately -25 (I believe it may have actually been -17 F). That's as cold as I've been experienced, but I'm sure somebody here can tell you about -40 before windchill.

Anyway, warm the filter and then insulate it from the cold.

Another cold weather thing I like to do is make the hot chocolate, etc. at night, put it in LEAKPROOF containers, and put it in the sleeping bag with me at night. It helps me stay warm, and is warm when I wake up.

BillyJoe, thanks for the information.

in cold cold weather i have to make choices... you have to also think from closes to the body out.....

i try to keep my food/energy bars and stuff for the day close... its so much easier to eat em when there not frozen , normaly a small amount of water in my coat pockets to help stablize the temp and keep it from freezing , normaly a nalgen ... i also keep spare batteries and electronics i need including flash lights inside my inner layer.... any thing extra that can take the cold i push to the out side pockets , and then fabrics and stuff not really effected by the cold in my pack....

another trick i been working on is using the camel back safe electrolye solution , this should add enough salts to lower the freezing temp but also act as an anti freeze in the lines... i would try to dry the filter as much as possible... i dont see a problem with charcoal filter media but i dont know about ceramics while wet , they should be ok.... i normaly keep those in my pockets sence its normaly small and i try to dry out the system as much as i can... as long as you dont leave standing water in the lines the freezing should be fine and will go away when you run your filter... but the other issue is what plastics you use for your tubes... vynil gets really brittle when its cold and it breaks down fairly quickly ... tygon has worked well for me in the past....

at night below 40 i find a warm bottle of water is good in a sleeping bag ... so are warmed rocks ... most the time what i try to do is maintain loft in my bags and pad enough to keep the insulation high enough....

i havnt been to a winter camp in 4 years though , most the time i just spend the day and most a night out with out making camp and go home late.... i must be getting old

Speaking of Camelbacks
A tip to keep the water from freezing in the tube,
blow in it after you take your drink.

Thanks for that..

What about HDPE Nalgene botles ? You can get them in small sizes at REI that hold a few of ounces or, you can order them from Nalgene.

505: Thanks, I'll check into it! I don't REALLY think I'll ever need it or the fire starter (but the first aid kit I'm putting together has already been used for skinned knuckles) but I would rather have it and NOT need it than the reverse.

The second you don't have it, you'll need it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

There is only one maybe 2 mechanical units approved by the EPA as water purifiers. First Need being the most common. It has drawbacks as mentioned. The rest are filters of different degrees. If it were me in this situation I would use the katadyn hiker with a coffee filter over the prefilter.

then I would chemical treat it with MP1 tabs, then I would run the water threw a brita type filter twice to remove chemicals and metals.

The best you can do without a real expensive unit.

A word on ceramic filter elements. They work good but freeze and crack in
winter, got that t-shirt.

http://www.backpacking-guide.com/water-filter-purifier-reviews.html

Hound

SAR H: Thank you as well, I MIGHT still go with the First Need, but not 100% sure yet. I have been looking at the katadyne unit and from what I've read, Coffee filters are a no brainer. I'll check into the MP1 tabs but might just use bleach (unless the mp1's are clorox) Again, thanks for the info.