One thing I've learned is that order will always come out of chaos. Can't have one without the other. it may take quiet a while but it will come about.

Jroden, I think a lot of us have wondered the same thing. I was just looking at a slide show of old pictures with the majority being out west from a period of the 1880's to the 1920's. I think some in the modern world could adapt to the situation but most couldn't. Think about how many people know how to clean a fish, animal or tend to a garden. Then you have to deal with the loss of amenities of electricity, indoor plumbing, and things of that nature. How many people even know how to saddle a horse not to mention break a horse for transportation. It would be an interesting but sad time.

The strong and smart WILL survive! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

not to mention the well armed!

Anyone who is eager to exploit absolutely everything will thrive under any conditions.

Don't forget that the security and ease of survival we enjoy now is part and
parcel of the society that we live in. We wouldn't have many of these fine
"toys" that we now have if it weren't for the society that we live in.

The "yoke of government" is a bit of a different story, and could stand to
be revised, both in your country and here in Canada. I believe that there
is vast room for improvement to a more responsible situation, but that's politics
and isn't the focus of this post.

Most people look at a survival situation with a given time frame of short duration,
say a couple of years at most, then it's back to the status quo....man that
was tough, glad I survived it, now lets all sit down and watch the football
game on TV.

That type of scenario doesn't work if our society suffers a universal meltdown.

Picture yourself doing your everyday tasks the way your great, great grandfather
would have done.
Say you live in the suburbs and want to go into town. For me, I live out of
town, and when I hop in the car, it usually takes me 20 minutes to hit downtown.
If I bike, it's 40 minutes to an hour. If I had to walk, it could take hours.
Don't know how long it would take to go by horse, as I don't have one, but I can
envision it taking quite awhile.
Now picture taking a trip into town in the middle of winter, in your northern
States, or like here where I live. Temperatures could easily reach -20F to -30F,
and if your trip took hours, what a different story that would be.

I'm a very adaptable person, and know that I could make a go of things if I
needed to, for as long as I needed to, but it would be extremely painful,
and I can tell you without a doubt in my mind, that I would miss the perks of
modern society, hands down.

Right now, it's -20C outside on my porch at just after 1 pm, the warmest part
of the day.
Edmonton Alberta Canada, yesterday had a high temp of -46.1C (-50.98F)
and -58.4C (-73.12F) with the wind chill. Only Dzalinda, Siberia, appeared to
be colder, a weather station there recorded temperatures of -48 C (-54.4F).

On days like this, I am very happy to have the conveniences of our modern
society. Unless you live in an area closer to the equator, it would be very
difficult to survive all 4 seasons without the modern conveniences we now enjoy.

Can you imagine what it must have been like during the last ice age?

I know that the common thought is that if our ancestors were able to do it,
we should be able to do it as well. Don't forget though, that our ancestors
were far hardier and tougher folk than what we see today. Given that, I might
suggest that if our ancestors were offered a small portion of the conveniences
that we have today, they would have jumped at the chance to make their lives
a little easier. Who in their right mind wouldn't?

How many of us here on the board would be able to make a go of things using
the tools that our ancestors had available to them?
Even the toughest of us would find it difficult to survive in the environments
that our ancestors did given the tools that they had available to them.

Can you imagine building a house without using power tools?
Or for that matter, will you be able to use all your many rifles, shotguns
and such when the ammo runs out? Some might be able to do so, with reloading
and such, but what happens when the gunpowder runs out?
Hunting with a bow is far different than hunting with rifle. Would you be able
to hunt with a bow and do it with the same efficiency as you do with a rifle?
Some might, but I have a feeling that far more would end up going hungry.

If a situation developed where modern society broke down, it wouldn't take
very many years before we found ourselves back in the conditions that our
ancestors faced, without the things we take for granted.
No more computers, no more trucks, cars, buses, oil refineries, electricity
(other than that provided by solar and wind), phone service and many other
"things" we take for granted.

We as a society here in North America have it pretty good, and I'm saddened by
the thought that many members of our society would not be able to survive should
the situation develop where our society was gone.

That is an excellent response and basically captures what I was thinking. But to me, the constraints of society that I am talking about isn't something imposed recently. I feel it started back when humans began farming and domesticating animals to better feel larger population groups. I think in a global meltdown with a severely decreased population, a return to the nomadic, hunter/gatherer would be more natural than trying to carry on old institutions.

Recon1, have you by change read any Out of the Ashes Books? Lot of foolishness in there (it is fiction) but also some good ideas about govmnt/how to rule

Haven't read that but we do have a "what if" set of plans for our clan.
If that doesn't work, I might just decide to become one of the mole people and tunnel into a cave somewhere.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I like the way you think. I spend as much time attempting hunter/gatherer skills by myself and with my little brother who is also interested in them, but everything is very difficult without a lot of practice. I bring a light pack for just in case but i try my best not to use it unless its something I made with the exeption of my knife(which is never very far from me). the funny thing is the outlook of most of the people around me they seem to think I am nuts. At work when I have spare time I carve traps work on a bowdrill set and may primitive living skills for this very reason. dependency on modern society in that type of situation would always have the same result, running out of supplies. If you can live without supplies there is nothing to worry about except eluding other people, which the less things to worry about the better.

Yeah I have a very tolerant and understanding wife and I work in a body shop on commision so they dont really care what I do with my down time, but they definately think I am strange and dont understand why I would want to do all of these things the hard way.

In the country, most folks keep some kind of emergency supplies on hand for unforseen emergencies. In our area, tornadoes and ice storms are our biggest threats. During the last ice storm power lines went down, and many people had to go to shelters for warmth, food, and water. We were toasty warm, had lights, ate quite well, had plenty of water, and hardly even noticed the difference. It pays to prepare! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />