This is a "companion thread" to my "SHTF thread" (link below)....

http://www.scrapyardknives.com/ubbthread...ge=0#Post454470

This post started out as a thread about my newest AR15, but I decided to add some GENERAL INFORMATION from a post I recently made on another forum. This information has been altered to fit my revised scope here....

In order to "qualify myself" to make this post I thought you might like to know my "AR15 Credentials".....

1) I built my first AR15 in 1984.
2) I have built MANY AR15's during the past 27 years.
3) I have continuously owned and operated AR15's for the past 27 years.
4) I am an active shooter, and routinely shoot 1k rounds a month (or more).
5) I have owned the following brands of AR15's:

ArmaLite
Bravo Company (BCM)
Bushmaster
Colt
Colt Defense
DPMS
Essential Arms
Eagle Arms (Coal Valley - before they bought the ArmaLite trade name)
Eagle Arms Division of ArmaLite
LMT
Olympic Arms
Rock River Arms
SGW
Smith & Wesson


Please note: I've owned WELL OVER ten rifles from some of the above companies.


At this point you might be wondering which brand of AR15 I'm going to recommend? First, it is important to understand that NO AR15 "manufacturer" actually fabricates all of their own components. It is more accurate to refer to AR15 brand names as "assemblers" because they all buy various components and assemble them into a single unit. AR15 assemblers only have a couple of methods for competing for your money:

1) "Fit & Finish" - companies like Rock River Arms brag about their uniform upper and lower receiver finishes (ie - they match well) and about how tight the upper and lower lock together. This appeals to the uninformed who believe that tight fitting upper / lower groups are required for precise accuracy. This is not true. In fact, the military will not replace a rifle until a .020" gauge can pass through BOTH SIDES of the gap between the upper / lower.

2) "Price" - companies buy lower grade parts or cut Quality Control measures to compete. An example would be not staking the castle nut. Its a very simple process, but it takes time and therefore money to do so.

3) "Quality" - a few companies follow the known components of the TDP (Technical Data Package), and assemble as close to "milspec" as possible. NOTE: No AR15 is truly milspec because they lack the giggle switch and 14.5" barrel with removable muzzle brake.

Taking the three methods of competing, and my extensive experience with the AR15 platform into account I recommend the following:

* Bravo Company (BCM)
* Colt Defense
* NOTE: There is a lot of praise for Daniel Defense, but since I have no personal experience I cannot recommend them.



BRANDING CLARIFICATION / CAVEAT

The reasons why I recommend the BCM and Colt "brands" are: they currently use the right components (see below), and have the quality control required to properly assemble a fighting carbine. When I say "right components" I am referring to those features desired for a typical 16" barreled fighting carbine (as defined by Pat Rogers and other knowledgeable people). AR15's are machines, and like any other machine they are subject to eventual failure. Selecting the right features will decrease the probability of failure. You do not have to purchase a BCM or Colt to have a fighting carbine - there are other avenues to achieve this. However, this post is geared toward those people that wish to buy assembled components from reputable companies instead of doing it "from scratch".



If you don't understand the difference between a "Tier One Fighting Carbine" and a "Hobby Grade Carbine" you should research the following topics:

"Tier One" vs "Hobby Grade"

* Milspec 7075 Forged .148" Receiver Extension vs Commercial 6061 Extruded .168/.170" Receiver Extension
* Staked vs Non Staked Castle Nuts
* Forged 7075-T6 Lower Receiver vs Cast or Polymer Lower Receivers
* 1/7 Twist Rate vs 1/9 Twist Rate
* 5.56x45mm Chamber vs 223 Remington Chamber
* Chrome Lined Bore & Chamber vs Non Chromed Lined Bore and Chamber
* Certified Mil-B-11595E Barrel Steel vs 4140 or Non-Certified 4150 Barrel Steel
* M4 Feed Ramps vs M16 Feed Ramps
* F-Marked Front Sight Base vs Non F-Marked Front Sight Base
* Tapered FSB Pins vs Straight FSB Pins
* Parkerzing Under FSB vs Bare Steel Under FSB
* Every Barrel Being High-Pressure / Magnetic Particle Inspected vs "Batch" Testing
* Every Bolt Being HP / MPI vs "Batch" Testing
* Shot Peened Bolt vs Not Shot Peened Bolts
* M16 Bolt Carrier vs AR15 Bolt Carrier
* 158 Carpenter Steel Bolt Carriers vs Other Bolt Carrier Materials
* Chrome Lined Bolt Carrier vs Non Chrome Lined Bolt Carrier
* Chrome Lined Gas Key vs Non Chrome Lined Gas Key
* Properly Staked Gas Key vs Improperly Staked Gas Key
* Grade 8 GK Screws vs Anything Else
* Black Bolt Extractor Inserts vs Blue Bolt Extractor Inserts
* Tool Steel Extractors vs MIM Extractors
* H Buffers vs Carbine Buffers

If you want the most durable performance from your rifle you need to have as many of the features on the "left side" of the above list as possible. The link below contains a chart with comparisons of the various assembler's practices:


AR15 COMPARISON CHART LINK - CLICK ME!


ARCHITECT'S STANDARD AR15 BUYING GUIDE RECOMMENDATIONS

1) If you want a RANGE TOY that will see little hard use - then you'll be fine with an ArmaLite, Bushmaster, RRA or Smith & Wesson.

2) If you want a FIGHTING RIFLE then you need to buy a BCM, Colt / Colt Defense, or maybe Daniel Defense. You can include OLDER LMT's in this group too.

3) Eventually you might want your "range toy" to be a "fighting rifle" so just buy a BCM, Colt, or DD to start with. You'll NEVER regret buying a quality rifle - you might regret saving $200 by purchasing a lower quality rifle.


[color:"blue"]Since the cost of building a "tier one" AR15 is less than $1000 I cannot think of a single VALID reason to buy anything else. For example, the cost of "building" a BCM MidLength or BCM "M4" is only $958. NOTE: When I say "build" I do not mean you have to actually "build" anything - you just have to push the two take-down pins![/color]

BCM NON-HAMMER FORGED BARREL "BUILD" COST

* BCM Factory Assembled "Blem" Lower without Stock Body = $265 Delivered
* VLTOR Clubfoot Stock @ BCM = $49
* BCM MidLength or M4 Upper without Handguards = $385
* BCM BCG and CH = $135
* MagPul MOE Handguards @ BCM = $33
* Shipping for everything at BCM excluding the lower (shipping is in that price) = $15
* LMT Fixed Rear Sight @ AR15.com = $75 or LaRue LT-103 BUIS for $89

Total BCM with LMT Rear BUIS = $958



[color:"red"] So do I practice what I preach? [/color] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />



Recently I decided to add a "General Purpose 5.56x45mm Carbine" to my SHTF long gun battery. I already had a Sig Sauer Sig556, Colt 6920 with an EOTech 553 / Daniel Defense Omega FF Quad Rail / etc, Colt 6520 "Kiss AR15" (NOT PICTURED), and an Arsenal SLR-106FR.





However, I wanted a 5.56x45mm carbine that was equally well adapted to CQB distances as it was to around 375 yards. Over the years I've used a wide variety of top quality optics on my AR15's (Leupold 3-9x40, Leupold 4-12x40, Trijicon ACOG TA44, Trijicon AcOG TA01NSN, Trijicon Reflex, EOTech 511, EOTech 517, EOTech 553, EOTech 557, Aimpoint ML2, C-MORE, etc). I've also used "flip to side" magnifiers that sit behind the RDS (Aimpoint and/or EOTech). My personal experience has yielded that RDS (red dot sights) are great out to about 150 yards and ACOG's (3x or 4x) are good from about 100-400 yards. Flip to side magnifiers didn't work well for me at all!

What optic did I select?

Trijicon's Accupoint line features 1-4x or 1.25-4x with tritium powered reticules (no batteries to go dead) that are also feed ambient light through a fiber-optic system. This means the reticule grows brighter when the light around you is brighter and is powered by tritium in even total darkness. You might be wondering what the big deal is? Well if you've used an ACOG without the BAC feature you've probably have experienced "reticule washout" where the reticule just appears black.

What optic mount did I select?

For my money there is only one brand to consider: LaRue Tactical. Due to the long eye relief requirement of the Accupoint I selected LaRue's LT-139 SPR mount. This mount is hold in place with throw-levers that allow the optic to be quickly detached. When re-mounted it is GUARANTEED to maintain zero!

What carbine did I select?

I prefer a "MidLength" gas system (9" handguard as opposed to the standard 7" handguard on a "carbine") for a couple of reasons:

1) They balance better for me.
2) LONGER SIGHT RADIUS!
3) Reduced gas pressures and therefore reduced wear.

I selected BCM's "hammer forged barrel" option, because they are reputably superior to non-hammer-forged barrels.

What BUIS did I select?

There was only one viable option for a "flip up" rear sight - TROY! I've used around 15 different flip-up rear sights over the years, and the Troy Battle Sight is by far the best on the market.

What Accessories did I select?

I strongly considered a free-floating quad rail for this gun, but at this time have decided against it. In the future I might change my mind.

For the buttstock I selected a VLTOR Modstock, because they have a comfortable "sloping cheek weld" which also has waterproof battery storage built in.

For the pistol grip I selected a MagPul "MOE", because it is very comfortable and has various removable "cores" that snap into the bottom. I've ordered a core that will hold a spare bolt and firing pin.

For the light I selected a Sure-Fire G2 in a VTAC mount. This is a simple set up that has always worked well for me.


The cold and rainy Friday before last I took the new "General Purpose 5.56x45mm Carbine" out for an initial break in. In about two or two-and-a-half hours I fired 476 rounds of Wolf 55gr Classic ammo. When the weather improves a little (I shoot in rain, snow, sleet, etc...but 8F just plain sucks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbdn.gif" alt="" /> ) I'll run another 600rds through it before it gets accepted as "tested / reliable and ready for SHTF duty".



This thread became a little (well - A LOT <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" /> ) long winded, but I wanted to share some knowledge gained from personal experience and I wanted to show off my new carbine <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .

NOTE:

I look awkward holding the AK in the picture above, because that was a "weak-side transition" drill. I'm right handed so running the AK left handed was a little "off". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />

Ah hah! Thanks for this thread! I forgot that I can pick up my new lower receiver from my local dealer! Off I go!

Heres a link that mirrors alot if the above, if you navigate around you will see the same chart as well as charts on other ar related items

http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/2501.html

wow a job well done. Thanks for this thread <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.

on a side note: can you guess what AR15 I have on my icon? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Start an AK thread!

KK, a Daniel Defense?
I have a hobby AR at the moment even though it is being upgraded as time allows. My go to gun is a FAL, FA Uzi, or shotty. Great read, and your rifle mirrors a lot of things I think are important.

I love AR threads. The AR platform is probably my favorite for training purposes, but they do tend to multiply. I have had good luck with Colt, Bushmaster and Rock River uppers and lowers. I have not used my DPMS enough to comment. I tend to use Bushmaster lower parts kits with exception of a Geissele trigger group here or there.

My most used AR is a Bushmaster A3 16" HBAR upper is an Ameetec lower and a Bushmaster lower parts kit. Below is an old pic of one of the heaviest configurations I ever used in a class. I have verfied that holding this setup in contact ready position with one arm for 5 minutes then addressing a target in 100+ degree heat sucks in case you were wondering.



Over the years, the more I have trained and instructed, the more simple my setups become. On my primary AR, I have a sling, a red dot optic, a light and BUIS. I have gotten away from rail systems due to the weight. DD makes some lighter weight setups, but I could not justify the cost. There may even be some even lighter rail systems now. I don't use a forward grip anymore either. Everyone has different tastes though, especially me as a lefty.

Now I have an opportunity to play around with the .308 AR platform. That means more BUIS, more LaRue QD mounts etc....

Well now that I am home I can go into my set-up a bit deeper. I have a Del-Ton A2 lower receiver with a Del-Ton lower parts kit, always have had great luck and the trigger feel is above average for them. The stock is currently a M4 on a commercial tube. The bolt is mp tested, carrier has been staked correctly. The upper receiver is a keyhole forge A3 flat-top. The brl is a 16" m4 profile Del-Ton that is chrome lined, along with the chamber, 1-7" twist, F marked front sight, and A2 hider. The carbine has the Magpul BUIS, wears an Aimpoint M2 in factory mount. The hand-guards are Magpul MOE. The pistol grip is a Magpul MOE. I have Magpul MOE winter trigger guard. The sling is the Magpul sling with the rear ASP plate, and a front M4 sling mount. I do have a Magpul vertical fore-grip because I like having something to hold on. As for mags I like the PMags in 30 rd, and GI 20rd mags.

Things I am thing of doing is having ADCO cut the brl to 14.7" and perm attach the A2 hider. Also currently my G2Z rides in a DD PAK mount but I need a regular mount instead of the angle. I would like to mover to a Vltor stock, or even better a LMT stock and tube. A LaRue mount would be nice for the Aimpoint too. Then lastly, paint the rifle with Krylon rattle can.

Thanks for sharing! I recently sold my Rock River, and wish now that I had kept it. My reason for selling it was mostly financial, but still had some gripes about the Rock River.

First complaint was the weight, specifically the weight under the handguards. I'm not a 90 pound weakling, but I couldn't hold this gun up for an extended amount of time.

Second was the stock, just didn't care for the collapsible stock. My next one will have an A2 stock. Not the fault of the gun, but once I got it I realized what I did and didn't like.

Another thing I didn't like was the detachable carry handle. Again, not the gun's fault, but after using it I realized I like an A2 better.

My next will be an A2 build with a pencil barrel and I'll find some 20 round mags to go with it. I want it as light as possible, and I don't care for optics and lights and all the other stuff, I like a fairly basic gun.

PM sent


Been looking for a year for a carbine


This is good stuff

Burban - I fired a PM back at you.

Arch...did you see the prototype Dissipator that Stickman posted up on ARF? I emailed Paul, but they haven't decided to produce yet or not....I NEED ONE <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

BORROWED...this is NOT my picture.

Ish,

I didn't see it. All of the BCM's I've owned have been MidLengths because I like the longer sight radius. A Dis' would be even better. They are typically front heavy though (because they have another gas block under the handguards).

Great thread Architect! I've only fired a borrowed AR a couple times. I've been thinking of getting one for myself but there are just so many variations! I like the DIY idea, but have never done a build of any firearm. I don't have any special smithing tools, but a decent set of general tools. In your tier one BCM build example, is it really that simple of buying the components and slapping them together? I would love to give it a try. Might have to sell a few knives though to justify it. - JD


>>> Since the cost of building a "tier one" AR15 is less than $1000 I cannot think of a single VALID reason to buy anything else. For example, the cost of "building" a BCM MidLength or BCM "M4" is only $958. NOTE: When I say "build" I do not mean you have to actually "build" anything - you just have to push the two take-down pins!

Yes - you can literally buy a completed BCM lower assembly and a completed BCM upper assembly...sit the upper on the lower and push two take-down pins and have a completed rifle without: A) having to "build" anything, B) having to pay FET (Federal Excise Tax - which is required on firearms shipped from the manufacturer as "complete").

BCM also sells complete rifles now, but why pay the FET?

If you settle on a BCM - you will never be disappointed.

+1 -- Get the BCM and don't look back. It is, as they say, a battle rifle.

If I had it to do over again - I wouldn't have any of my Colts. In fact, I had to send a Colt 6920 lower back to the factory on Thursday (the disconnector wasn't allowing the hammer to properly set - or - the safety to engage).

BCM isn't going to have the "tight fit" of a Rock River or the "upper and lower color match" of a S&W. However, its going to more durable and therefore more reliable.

BCM is now the only brand I recommend (have been having some issues a few of my Colts).

As a related side - buy some Slip2000 EWL. Its AMAZING stuff. I keep a 4oz bottle in my chest rig.

Wow Gary, we do have similiar tastes I think. I bought a BCM Mid-lenght complete AR after researching long and hard. Also after having several other brands (Colt, RRA, BushMaster), they were nice guns, but wanted to jam more than I liked. Nothing major, but I wanted as close to 100% as I could get.

As I mentioned, I have one of my best high school friends who now lives in Ogden Utah, and is on the Salt Lake City SWAT team. I presented him with my dilema and he mentioned that they had a AR guru on the squad. Supposedly knew everything about everything concerning AR's. He told me he would ask for a recommendation for a complete AR production purchase. Conclusion came back to buy a complete BCM rifle. I took his recommendation and went with it, and haven't looked back. Everything mil-spec on the BCM's which I liked very much. As Gary mentioned, the upper to lower fit isn't super tight, but boy, this thing is dead nuts reliable. I have even had to use some of the old crap ammo from time to time, and she eats that stuff up. Just have to make sure I clean it really good after that. Haven't thought about another AR purchase after having this one. This is the one for me, no doubts, and I will agree with Gary, BCM comes highly recommended.

Here is a pic I took after a cleaning with my Glock 34. My BCM has Troy Ind, folding front and rear battle sights, troy front vertical grip, Larue Tactical rail index clips, optic is a Leatherwood Hi-Lux CMR (Close-Medium Range) 1-4x24 Illuminated reticale scope, with a Burris mount.

That is a great rifle! Everything you need and nothing you don't. We have very similar tastes, and I'm really glad you joined the yard. It's great to have another active (and like minded) member. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Gary. Don't have my light setup on in those picture, but I use a simple 1 inch mount with a 4sevens light, push button style. I don't like alot of crap hanging from my rifle, like you said, keep it simple.

Do you use anything other than Magpul magazines?

Wow Babble. That sure is a good looking rifle. I'm envious. So I was reading on the BDM site that the "blems" can't be shipped to my communist state of MA. Not sure if that is also true for the non-blems. Not sure what the issue is otherr than it is black and scary and makes our politicians pee their diapers. Will have to call BCM at some point to see what I can get.

Right now I have to figure out how the heck I'm going to pay for the booty I scored at the Ganza. Just got the email from Amy and now I'm in "Oh crap which card can I put these on?" mode. Looks like I need to thin the herd. Out with the old, in with the new.

Bapple, the BCM will be one that I look into. I go from having an AR to not, to having another one. Gary tried to talk sense into me not too long ago but I did not heed and here I have the wants for another AR LOL.

Jave, great on the scores. I heard today that I got a few of the ones i wanted-not the bone handle green SAR 3 but that is life.

James, I run a simple SureFire G2 in a VTAC mount on my BCM. My rifle has a traditional handguard so I was limited on my mounting options, but I really like the set up.

I only use USGI mags upfit with MagPul followers and Ranger Plates or Mag Assists. I never warmed up to plastic magazine in an AR (especially after the Orlite Craze of 10-12 years ago). However, Pmags are universally praised. If you're running PMags you should be fine.

I recently gave away some USGI 30rd's that I had used since the late 1980's. Those mags had new followers, springs, and base plates but still worked 100%.

The new "black teflon" USGI (from D&H or similar) are my mag body of choice. Add a chrome silicon spring, MagPul follower, and MagPul Ranger Base Plate and they will run forever.

Jeff - told you so <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Great looking rifles guys! How do you like the low power variable scopes? I prefer my red dots...I'm just not very fast with acquisition. However, I'm really interested in the new SWFA 1-4x FFP that recently came out.

I've got my eye on a BCM Kino...just need to process a little paperwork. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ish, I have owned both RDS (various Aimpoints and EoTechs) and Low-Power-Variables. The RDS is fine for up to 100+/- meters and for really really fast CQB acquisition. The LPV is better for everything else, and also good at CQB / within 100.

The only problem I have with LPV's is the lack of a true 1x setting. I wish they would make one that is actually 1x instead of 1.1x or 1.25x.

If Trijicon's TR24G wasn't an $800 optic in a $200 mount I'd have them on everything that currently has an EoTech on it. As it stands, I only have two Trijicon Accupoints and two EoTechs.

I agree 1.5x just does not cut it indoors or at up close and personal distances.

Thanks guys...

I don't think my comments were very clear. I meant to say that I love the way my T1 allows acquisition in a violent fury of a moment...ie: tracking live targets on the run and keeping awareness of my surroundings (both eyes open). I suppose it depends on the intended use for the given tool. For me...the T1 is just an extremely flexible platform that works ideally for the ranges I would ever expect to engage (0-250). Within 100 yds, I hunt with my AR and am extremely confident of shot placement for clean kills with the T1 setup.

My original question was more oriented around any advantages of the 1-4x systems and what you guys are experiencing. I understand that magnification helps...but for me I can't justify needing 4x versus not being able to acquire targets like a RDS at CQB-75yd distances. I'm curious how you guys can adapt at close range or with moving targets / engaging multiple targets with the 1-4x scopes. Again, I've got my eye on a SWFA 1-4x FFP to try out (or Trijicon)...so i'm curious how it works for you.

I should note I have never participated in a carbine course or other technical training, etc....I mostly use live targets (ie: Hogs) for practice engaging multiple moving targets from 10-100yds....rarely a steady shot, and almost always moving fast.

I can hit steel gongs at 400 yds with my M3 on a regular basis when held right.

Anyone know anything on the Leatherwood 1-4x optic?

This brings a tear to my eye

- sniff <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" />

a man with a new gun.


Nice

Very Nice

Architect, Any experience with Spikes Tactical? Mil spec and great prices from what I can see. I like the looks of their ST-16 Mid-Length LE Carbine. Opinion?

I'm not Arch...but I've had Spike's gear in the past. They make good gear that would probably suit all of your needs, but if you have the cash...just pull the trigger on the BCM.

BCM will retain more value.

What most people don't realize is that if you actually plan to use the rifle...the cost of upgrading to a tier 1 quality rifle is moot in comparison to the expense of ammo, training, etc over the life of the rifle. Get the best!

Pic Thread!

BCM BFH MidLength Lightweight 16"...she's my KISS configuration. Only mod is a Gieselle SSA.

Hey Architect or anyone else-
What's your thoughts on POF America? They seem to come up often in forums as the best AR's out there. Just curious if anyone here has any experience with them and was wondering how they might compare to the likes of BCM and others mentioned in this thread...?

And question about BCM- Can you buy full rifles or just pieces to assemble one? Seems on their site you cannot purchase an assembled rifle.

Thanks.

Put the BCM to use yesterday. Spotted this big boy about 600 yards away down a rightaway....stalked to within about 60 yards and put him down! Gotta love the TSX's...they have such great penetration <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Knot...you have to be careful calibrating what you hear on the web. POF is definitely good gear...but the best? Did KAC / Colt come up in any of those? BCM / Noveske / LMT? Just sayin...they're all good.

I will say that my BCM LW Middy is one of the sweetest shooting guns. I'm in love with the LW barrel <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You can purchase complete rifles from BCM...but the purchase process is similar to the Lowers...you have to print the PDF, fill out the info, and send it in with a USPS MO for payment. The major downside to purchasing a completed rifle is that they don't really offer "options"....they are standard fare.

I spoke with Paul about a month ago at BCM and he indicated that they plan to start offering factory direct SBR's commercially late summer. Hooo..dog! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Is this it (upper)? That is exactly what I need.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-1...-16lw%20bfh.htm

Thanks, Fred

I've got a Spikes and it's fine. If I were to do it again I'd go BCM. I've had no problems with it but there is a history with the company. When the buying rush happened in our last election they were accused of price gouging. I saw prices go up everywhere, I don't know if they should have been singled out. Either way, BCM has a better reputation.

Fred, you got it. BFH Midlength 16" Lightweight barrel.

FYI...Put 75 rounds through it this weekend. Most at the range...the rest putting Hogs to rest. She shoots so smoothly.

Very nice pig there Ish!

Ish nailed it. From what I've seen POF makes some great guns, but dimensionally they are quite different. From an engineering standpoint, that heat sink they build into them adds a LOT of weight. Also the railed POF rifles can't be converted to a flattop configuration because there isn't a picatinny rail underneath where the rail system attaches to the top of the upper reciever, just a male dovetail and a couple small notches. And less subjectively, I'm not especially fond of thier FDE colored coating. Whatever material it is, it's very reflective when compared to something like Duracoat or any other finish you usually see on an AR. If I could afford one, I would buy one in black, no doubt, but IMO they're built as much to be flashy as they were to be a solid product.

I agree on the shiney coating POF uses...Im not a big fan. I really want a BCM but they haven't been taking orderes on ARs for a while now. their site says early May but it is mid May and still no orders. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

WOW...that's unfortunate! I would hold out...Paul and his team will get the backlog figured out and they'll start releasing lowers / rifles again. Also...I spoke with Paul a few months back, and he indicated that they'll start selling factory SBR's hopefully by end of summer also. I'm looking forward to that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

heres my setup

Lookin good Vance...did you have APA build it, or did you build it on the lower? Those guys build killer bolts...haven't seen any of their AR's, other than just the lowers that they sold. I like that flare on the magwell <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

it was built from their lower..internals are rock river
the flare took some getting used to..looks wise..the winter trigger guard is also intergral no roll pins in that bad boy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What type of warranty does BCM offer i couldn't find one on their website? Also what price do their lowers go for?

After checking these pictures out, I'm thinking I need an M4.

My 5.56 rifles


And a commie rifle for some balance.

nice RPD! I've always been a fan of commblock weapons, but that certainly doesn't mean I dislike ARs, each system has it's own merits!

Its a ying and yang thing for me. I appreciate both platforms and see a valid use for each of them. The RPD is a hoot any way you slice it.

I'm sure it is, now that I'm almost debt free, and my financial options are opening up, Here in a couple years I might try and get myself into some trouble with a new VLTOR reciever PKM <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think it'd be sweet to add an belt fed to my armory.

Picked up a stripped lower receiver the other day, now the fun begins.
This will be my first but not my last build. Prices sure have climbed
a bit at BCM but still reasonable. I am building a light weight for
my wife first. Going to follow Ish's build for the most part.

Wish me luck, Fred

What is your take on the sig556? Its tan ar15 thread but there are a ton of pistin driven alternatibes out gthat also through the 5.56 x 45. Are there any that stack up decently to a tier 1 ar15?

Well it looks like someone got a good deal.
I was very busy at work so I missed out.
No telling how high the winner was willing to go.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=235693383

I don't have any expereience with the SIG 556.

There are so many options out there for the AR platform and they are so darn easy to work on that it's tough for me to stray from that platform for "modern" type rifles.

I like the piston driven uppers that I have seen, but to be honest, I don't think the AR15 gas system presents any significant issues for my needs.

My impression is that 'modern' piston driven guns and especially ar15 uppers are a perceived answer to a problem that isn't very prevent. I guess I see them mostly as a fad instead of as a true revolution. Perhaps its an incremental evolution.

I don't own an ar15 but do own a su16 which is piston driven. Weight, less 'military looking' and price were the factors leading me to its purchase.

Gary- Just curious why you include older LMT's in the list but not newer..? Did they change something that made the newer LMT AR-15's less desirable?

KS - the newer LMT's use MIM carrier keys and some other parts. I just prefer to have no MIM parts in an AR15 or 1911.

Toast - the Sig556 has its flaws. No chrome lined barrel and quality control being the biggest. The furniture is also cheap, and the charging handle angle causes you to rake your knuckles if you have an optic on it. Google "Sig556 problems". You'll get a lot of hits. I have a Sig556 Classic.

Chuckles - BCM stands behind their products. Period.

Thanks for the reply architect glade to hear that about BCM . Does anyone have any opinions on Daniel Defense how do they compare to BCM. I have really been leaning toward the DDM4v3 for my first ar. Does anyone have any experience with this model?