This is a "companion thread" to my "SHTF thread" (link below)....

http://www.scrapyardknives.com/ubbthread...ge=0#Post454470

This post started out as a thread about my newest AR15, but I decided to add some GENERAL INFORMATION from a post I recently made on another forum. This information has been altered to fit my revised scope here....

In order to "qualify myself" to make this post I thought you might like to know my "AR15 Credentials".....

1) I built my first AR15 in 1984.
2) I have built MANY AR15's during the past 27 years.
3) I have continuously owned and operated AR15's for the past 27 years.
4) I am an active shooter, and routinely shoot 1k rounds a month (or more).
5) I have owned the following brands of AR15's:

ArmaLite
Bravo Company (BCM)
Bushmaster
Colt
Colt Defense
DPMS
Essential Arms
Eagle Arms (Coal Valley - before they bought the ArmaLite trade name)
Eagle Arms Division of ArmaLite
LMT
Olympic Arms
Rock River Arms
SGW
Smith & Wesson


Please note: I've owned WELL OVER ten rifles from some of the above companies.


At this point you might be wondering which brand of AR15 I'm going to recommend? First, it is important to understand that NO AR15 "manufacturer" actually fabricates all of their own components. It is more accurate to refer to AR15 brand names as "assemblers" because they all buy various components and assemble them into a single unit. AR15 assemblers only have a couple of methods for competing for your money:

1) "Fit & Finish" - companies like Rock River Arms brag about their uniform upper and lower receiver finishes (ie - they match well) and about how tight the upper and lower lock together. This appeals to the uninformed who believe that tight fitting upper / lower groups are required for precise accuracy. This is not true. In fact, the military will not replace a rifle until a .020" gauge can pass through BOTH SIDES of the gap between the upper / lower.

2) "Price" - companies buy lower grade parts or cut Quality Control measures to compete. An example would be not staking the castle nut. Its a very simple process, but it takes time and therefore money to do so.

3) "Quality" - a few companies follow the known components of the TDP (Technical Data Package), and assemble as close to "milspec" as possible. NOTE: No AR15 is truly milspec because they lack the giggle switch and 14.5" barrel with removable muzzle brake.

Taking the three methods of competing, and my extensive experience with the AR15 platform into account I recommend the following:

* Bravo Company (BCM)
* Colt Defense
* NOTE: There is a lot of praise for Daniel Defense, but since I have no personal experience I cannot recommend them.



BRANDING CLARIFICATION / CAVEAT

The reasons why I recommend the BCM and Colt "brands" are: they currently use the right components (see below), and have the quality control required to properly assemble a fighting carbine. When I say "right components" I am referring to those features desired for a typical 16" barreled fighting carbine (as defined by Pat Rogers and other knowledgeable people). AR15's are machines, and like any other machine they are subject to eventual failure. Selecting the right features will decrease the probability of failure. You do not have to purchase a BCM or Colt to have a fighting carbine - there are other avenues to achieve this. However, this post is geared toward those people that wish to buy assembled components from reputable companies instead of doing it "from scratch".



If you don't understand the difference between a "Tier One Fighting Carbine" and a "Hobby Grade Carbine" you should research the following topics:

"Tier One" vs "Hobby Grade"

* Milspec 7075 Forged .148" Receiver Extension vs Commercial 6061 Extruded .168/.170" Receiver Extension
* Staked vs Non Staked Castle Nuts
* Forged 7075-T6 Lower Receiver vs Cast or Polymer Lower Receivers
* 1/7 Twist Rate vs 1/9 Twist Rate
* 5.56x45mm Chamber vs 223 Remington Chamber
* Chrome Lined Bore & Chamber vs Non Chromed Lined Bore and Chamber
* Certified Mil-B-11595E Barrel Steel vs 4140 or Non-Certified 4150 Barrel Steel
* M4 Feed Ramps vs M16 Feed Ramps
* F-Marked Front Sight Base vs Non F-Marked Front Sight Base
* Tapered FSB Pins vs Straight FSB Pins
* Parkerzing Under FSB vs Bare Steel Under FSB
* Every Barrel Being High-Pressure / Magnetic Particle Inspected vs "Batch" Testing
* Every Bolt Being HP / MPI vs "Batch" Testing
* Shot Peened Bolt vs Not Shot Peened Bolts
* M16 Bolt Carrier vs AR15 Bolt Carrier
* 158 Carpenter Steel Bolt Carriers vs Other Bolt Carrier Materials
* Chrome Lined Bolt Carrier vs Non Chrome Lined Bolt Carrier
* Chrome Lined Gas Key vs Non Chrome Lined Gas Key
* Properly Staked Gas Key vs Improperly Staked Gas Key
* Grade 8 GK Screws vs Anything Else
* Black Bolt Extractor Inserts vs Blue Bolt Extractor Inserts
* Tool Steel Extractors vs MIM Extractors
* H Buffers vs Carbine Buffers

If you want the most durable performance from your rifle you need to have as many of the features on the "left side" of the above list as possible. The link below contains a chart with comparisons of the various assembler's practices:


AR15 COMPARISON CHART LINK - CLICK ME!


ARCHITECT'S STANDARD AR15 BUYING GUIDE RECOMMENDATIONS

1) If you want a RANGE TOY that will see little hard use - then you'll be fine with an ArmaLite, Bushmaster, RRA or Smith & Wesson.

2) If you want a FIGHTING RIFLE then you need to buy a BCM, Colt / Colt Defense, or maybe Daniel Defense. You can include OLDER LMT's in this group too.

3) Eventually you might want your "range toy" to be a "fighting rifle" so just buy a BCM, Colt, or DD to start with. You'll NEVER regret buying a quality rifle - you might regret saving $200 by purchasing a lower quality rifle.


[color:"blue"]Since the cost of building a "tier one" AR15 is less than $1000 I cannot think of a single VALID reason to buy anything else. For example, the cost of "building" a BCM MidLength or BCM "M4" is only $958. NOTE: When I say "build" I do not mean you have to actually "build" anything - you just have to push the two take-down pins![/color]

BCM NON-HAMMER FORGED BARREL "BUILD" COST

* BCM Factory Assembled "Blem" Lower without Stock Body = $265 Delivered
* VLTOR Clubfoot Stock @ BCM = $49
* BCM MidLength or M4 Upper without Handguards = $385
* BCM BCG and CH = $135
* MagPul MOE Handguards @ BCM = $33
* Shipping for everything at BCM excluding the lower (shipping is in that price) = $15
* LMT Fixed Rear Sight @ AR15.com = $75 or LaRue LT-103 BUIS for $89

Total BCM with LMT Rear BUIS = $958



[color:"red"] So do I practice what I preach? [/color] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />



Recently I decided to add a "General Purpose 5.56x45mm Carbine" to my SHTF long gun battery. I already had a Sig Sauer Sig556, Colt 6920 with an EOTech 553 / Daniel Defense Omega FF Quad Rail / etc, Colt 6520 "Kiss AR15" (NOT PICTURED), and an Arsenal SLR-106FR.





However, I wanted a 5.56x45mm carbine that was equally well adapted to CQB distances as it was to around 375 yards. Over the years I've used a wide variety of top quality optics on my AR15's (Leupold 3-9x40, Leupold 4-12x40, Trijicon ACOG TA44, Trijicon AcOG TA01NSN, Trijicon Reflex, EOTech 511, EOTech 517, EOTech 553, EOTech 557, Aimpoint ML2, C-MORE, etc). I've also used "flip to side" magnifiers that sit behind the RDS (Aimpoint and/or EOTech). My personal experience has yielded that RDS (red dot sights) are great out to about 150 yards and ACOG's (3x or 4x) are good from about 100-400 yards. Flip to side magnifiers didn't work well for me at all!

What optic did I select?

Trijicon's Accupoint line features 1-4x or 1.25-4x with tritium powered reticules (no batteries to go dead) that are also feed ambient light through a fiber-optic system. This means the reticule grows brighter when the light around you is brighter and is powered by tritium in even total darkness. You might be wondering what the big deal is? Well if you've used an ACOG without the BAC feature you've probably have experienced "reticule washout" where the reticule just appears black.

What optic mount did I select?

For my money there is only one brand to consider: LaRue Tactical. Due to the long eye relief requirement of the Accupoint I selected LaRue's LT-139 SPR mount. This mount is hold in place with throw-levers that allow the optic to be quickly detached. When re-mounted it is GUARANTEED to maintain zero!

What carbine did I select?

I prefer a "MidLength" gas system (9" handguard as opposed to the standard 7" handguard on a "carbine") for a couple of reasons:

1) They balance better for me.
2) LONGER SIGHT RADIUS!
3) Reduced gas pressures and therefore reduced wear.

I selected BCM's "hammer forged barrel" option, because they are reputably superior to non-hammer-forged barrels.

What BUIS did I select?

There was only one viable option for a "flip up" rear sight - TROY! I've used around 15 different flip-up rear sights over the years, and the Troy Battle Sight is by far the best on the market.

What Accessories did I select?

I strongly considered a free-floating quad rail for this gun, but at this time have decided against it. In the future I might change my mind.

For the buttstock I selected a VLTOR Modstock, because they have a comfortable "sloping cheek weld" which also has waterproof battery storage built in.

For the pistol grip I selected a MagPul "MOE", because it is very comfortable and has various removable "cores" that snap into the bottom. I've ordered a core that will hold a spare bolt and firing pin.

For the light I selected a Sure-Fire G2 in a VTAC mount. This is a simple set up that has always worked well for me.


The cold and rainy Friday before last I took the new "General Purpose 5.56x45mm Carbine" out for an initial break in. In about two or two-and-a-half hours I fired 476 rounds of Wolf 55gr Classic ammo. When the weather improves a little (I shoot in rain, snow, sleet, etc...but 8F just plain sucks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbdn.gif" alt="" /> ) I'll run another 600rds through it before it gets accepted as "tested / reliable and ready for SHTF duty".



This thread became a little (well - A LOT <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" /> ) long winded, but I wanted to share some knowledge gained from personal experience and I wanted to show off my new carbine <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .

NOTE:

I look awkward holding the AK in the picture above, because that was a "weak-side transition" drill. I'm right handed so running the AK left handed was a little "off". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />

Ah hah! Thanks for this thread! I forgot that I can pick up my new lower receiver from my local dealer! Off I go!

Heres a link that mirrors alot if the above, if you navigate around you will see the same chart as well as charts on other ar related items

http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/2501.html

wow a job well done. Thanks for this thread <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.

on a side note: can you guess what AR15 I have on my icon? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Start an AK thread!

KK, a Daniel Defense?
I have a hobby AR at the moment even though it is being upgraded as time allows. My go to gun is a FAL, FA Uzi, or shotty. Great read, and your rifle mirrors a lot of things I think are important.

I love AR threads. The AR platform is probably my favorite for training purposes, but they do tend to multiply. I have had good luck with Colt, Bushmaster and Rock River uppers and lowers. I have not used my DPMS enough to comment. I tend to use Bushmaster lower parts kits with exception of a Geissele trigger group here or there.

My most used AR is a Bushmaster A3 16" HBAR upper is an Ameetec lower and a Bushmaster lower parts kit. Below is an old pic of one of the heaviest configurations I ever used in a class. I have verfied that holding this setup in contact ready position with one arm for 5 minutes then addressing a target in 100+ degree heat sucks in case you were wondering.



Over the years, the more I have trained and instructed, the more simple my setups become. On my primary AR, I have a sling, a red dot optic, a light and BUIS. I have gotten away from rail systems due to the weight. DD makes some lighter weight setups, but I could not justify the cost. There may even be some even lighter rail systems now. I don't use a forward grip anymore either. Everyone has different tastes though, especially me as a lefty.

Now I have an opportunity to play around with the .308 AR platform. That means more BUIS, more LaRue QD mounts etc....

Well now that I am home I can go into my set-up a bit deeper. I have a Del-Ton A2 lower receiver with a Del-Ton lower parts kit, always have had great luck and the trigger feel is above average for them. The stock is currently a M4 on a commercial tube. The bolt is mp tested, carrier has been staked correctly. The upper receiver is a keyhole forge A3 flat-top. The brl is a 16" m4 profile Del-Ton that is chrome lined, along with the chamber, 1-7" twist, F marked front sight, and A2 hider. The carbine has the Magpul BUIS, wears an Aimpoint M2 in factory mount. The hand-guards are Magpul MOE. The pistol grip is a Magpul MOE. I have Magpul MOE winter trigger guard. The sling is the Magpul sling with the rear ASP plate, and a front M4 sling mount. I do have a Magpul vertical fore-grip because I like having something to hold on. As for mags I like the PMags in 30 rd, and GI 20rd mags.

Things I am thing of doing is having ADCO cut the brl to 14.7" and perm attach the A2 hider. Also currently my G2Z rides in a DD PAK mount but I need a regular mount instead of the angle. I would like to mover to a Vltor stock, or even better a LMT stock and tube. A LaRue mount would be nice for the Aimpoint too. Then lastly, paint the rifle with Krylon rattle can.

Thanks for sharing! I recently sold my Rock River, and wish now that I had kept it. My reason for selling it was mostly financial, but still had some gripes about the Rock River.

First complaint was the weight, specifically the weight under the handguards. I'm not a 90 pound weakling, but I couldn't hold this gun up for an extended amount of time.

Second was the stock, just didn't care for the collapsible stock. My next one will have an A2 stock. Not the fault of the gun, but once I got it I realized what I did and didn't like.

Another thing I didn't like was the detachable carry handle. Again, not the gun's fault, but after using it I realized I like an A2 better.

My next will be an A2 build with a pencil barrel and I'll find some 20 round mags to go with it. I want it as light as possible, and I don't care for optics and lights and all the other stuff, I like a fairly basic gun.

PM sent


Been looking for a year for a carbine


This is good stuff

Burban - I fired a PM back at you.