All, I never post political things anywhere. Much less in the yard. Mods if I'm in violation of the rules let me know or take this down please.

I just wanted to make sure everyone knows about the legislation Senator Diane Fienstein is proposing which could include a $200 dollar tax on each AR/AK you have and also make you register as a class III dealer. Having an FFL means that you can be searched at any time. The "unlawful search and seizure" part no longer applies.

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/we-stand-as-one-contact-congress-on-guns-email-your-contacts/

I'm not pushing any political stance here. I'm just making the info known. You decide if the lawmakers are being fair.

here is a great articale from Pravda about our freedoms in the US.

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/28-12-2012/123335-americans_guns-0/

Bld, I for one do not think you are violating anything. You are only posting links, links to articles that concern all of us.

This is the beginning. Of what I am truly not sure. A coming together (finally) of like minded individuals to continue what our forefathers put forth in writing or a complete raping of that hallowed document by those who are so... well you get the idea.

I'm wondering if any thought has been given to the way this will impact the people employed by the firearms industry. Take a look at some statistics.

http://nssf.org/impact/

Has anyone considered the economic impact on an already fragile economy?

my favorite quote from that article is,
Governments will use the excuse of trying to protect the people from maniacs and crime, but are in reality, it is the bureaucrats protecting their power and position.

BLD

I'm fighting this push hard. I have been pressed into becoming politically active over this.

This is not a matter of Republican or Democrat, Liberal or Conservative, it's not racial, bias. Its a matter of rights.

They are already trying to split hunters and sportsmen away from those that have guns for self defense. We have to stay strong and support each other or we will all be trampled.

What is frustrating is when you know your Senators and Representative are going to vote against your beliefs and there seems to be no real threat to their re-election.

Same here skorpyd its sad and a lesson in futility.

I hope all of you wrote your senators and representatives, it will also help to call them tomorrow, this thing is going up on Thursday. NRA-ILA has a link that allows you to easily write all of them in one go:

http://www.nraila.org/get-involved-locally/grassroots/write-your-reps.aspx

The more people they hear from who says they disagree with this sort of thing, the less likely they are to vote in favor of it.

You need to tell them to vote no on this and any other gun control legislation, and if they vote yes or abstain that you will not vote for them again. Make sure you write all of them, especially the ones who are most likely to let this pass.

Also be aware there is a "high capacity" (read: standard capacity) magazine ban being introduced separately to this, also on Thursday.

Even if this was true, it would not be an excuse to do nothing. What will it really cost you other than a couple of minutes?

The fact is that other than casting your vote differently next time, this is the only means of influence you have, and if enough people threaten to take away their vote, they will listen. It is their bread and butter after all.

Just a thought and an opinion. Happy to strike it if needed.

The Second Amendment was enacted because our founding fathers did not trust the ability of men to refrain from seeking power and seeking to silence the agency of their countrymen. They feared the rise of a king and they feared the nation they had fought becoming a nation of the governed rather than a nation that governed itself. They knew that an armed populace was the only sure deterrent to tyranny.

A people that willingly hands in its agency, that desires a caretaker to make its decisions for it; a people that does not want to govern itself or is unwilling to accept the responsibility for itself but seeks for a government to rule it and to provide for it; is such a people still deserving of the Constitution its forebears enacted to preserve that people's dignity, honor, and freedom?

It is understandable that politicians might try to disarm the public. That is the nature of politicians. However, can there be sympathy for a people that are willing to be disarmed and that voice their support of turning their arms over to gradual tyranny? Has the nature of men changed that much since 1787? Are all who govern now no longer interested in power? Are they all so trustworthy to guard our basic freedoms and liberties that we can and ought to give them free rein? Is the Second Amendment no longer needed?

I am a student of modern Chinese history. The Chinese Communist Party's initial popularity came about through promises to provide for the people. To take from the rich and distribute to the poor. It gained support in the countryside by sowing hatred and dehumanizing the upper class and by exhorting class warfare. Once its victory, made possible in large part by poor armed farmers, was complete, one of the first courses of action it undertook was to systemically and completely disarm the population. There was no egalitarian society that was promised. It was not in the nature of the ruling class to enact that vision. There was no meaningful voice of the people. Instead, at the whims of it rulers, the people were subjected to one political campaign after another that cost them tens of millions of lives. There was, at that point, no recourse. There were likewise none of the constitutionally mandated freedoms available--religion, speech, etc. Yes, China's constitution promises many of the same freedoms that ours does, but the party has no incentive to allow those promises to be fulfilled. It has become a meaningless document.

If such legislation as is being proposed my Ms. Feinstein passes, is publicly supported, and is upheld by the US Supreme Court, then I greatly fear for the course of our nation. I fear the rise of an even more powerful central government. Mostly, I fear that we would collectively deserve it.

That's enough of my ranting. Happy New Year <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

We need a like button here, thank you DogTired <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now go email and call your reps, there may still be a way out of this.

One side of the political spectrum is interested in enacting this type of centralized government, while the other does not.

Unfortunately the people who are in favor of this type of government is naturally better at organizing their ranks, while those who are opposed are by their very ideology more interested in sticking to themselves and avoid this kind of participation.

So unless the side who likes individual freedoms learn to work together, the battle is already lost. I hypothesize that this is what has happened in most of Europe and what is on the cusp of happening here.

Already wrote my politicians. They will be getting calls.

Awesome set of posts.

In reviewing the "Summary", it appears even pistols like my Glock 19 would be on the list, as a "handgun that can accept a detachable magazine and have one or more military characteristics"?? Thoughts?

Does anyone have a link to the actual proposed legislation? The Summary is too vague. Thanks.

That's the point Ish. It's sufficiently broad that almost ANY pistol could fall under this. What constitutes a "military characteristic?" Rail? Night sights? Adjustable sights? Polymer frame? Metal frame?

I have to admit I had a good giggle about the "Legitimate Hunters" wording.

I need a drink.

Is there an illegitimate hunter?

Feinstein fails to understand that the 2nd Amendment is not about hunting or sports.

She has before mentioned that if she could get the vote, she would have every American turn in their guns.

Confusingly she also held a CA CCW (which is very hard to get) in order to defend herself and said she would do that again.

Which is it?

These politicians seem to think that the rules shouldn't apply to them.

Its very easy to think of society as very safe without personal guns if you live in a rich neighborhood, behind iron gates and have a personal armed guard on stand by at all times.

Also, if you live in Illinois, write your state legislators right now, someone is proposing an all out ban with confiscation on "assault weapons" (what ever that is).

Just remember all, that the agenda is to weaken your rights a little at a time and only for certain subgroups of the gun owning public. Divide and conquer.

So all the hunters who don't care about pistol owners or military styled rifle owners won't speak up, next time the revolver owners won't speak up, etc.

Until no-one can own a firearm any longer, including "legitimate hunters".

Question: If someone owns a registered SBR, does it require additional registration...or is the current registration sufficient? Additionally, if a rifle requires registration, can I simply SBR it while I'm at it? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Serious question...but in jest. Recognize that I do not want any rights taken away, etc.

I don't think you'll get away with making it an SBR, more than likely they would create a new class?

Now, I have a serious question, what about those people who live in states that do not allow NFA items? Would you have to turn in your now illegal rifle?

No, politicians don't believe the rules apply to them. In fact, they have ensured the rules don't apply to them.

Congress freezes the federal workforce pay, yet they are exempted.

Once elected to Congress--regardless of how long you serve--you get your salary (or a really high percentage)--for the rest of your life.

Want to travel? Join Congress and fly first class military air for free.

And the list goes on...

I already contacted my elected officials and hopefully the politicians will see what a bad decision it would be. I hater to say this, but out Founding Fathers understood the meaning of standing up for one's rights--are there enough of us to do it today? I know many took an oath to protect the United States from all threats, foreign or domestic. How many will be willing to try and disarm fellow Americans, who would be willing to take a blue helmet to the ground, who would be willing to do what is necessary to continue the Constitution? Remember, if one of the first ten (Bill of Rights), especially the SECOND AMENDMENT, it won't be long before the rest start falling too. I am sickened with the state of affairs that the US is in to many good men and women have given all to guarantee the rights of the US populace.

Also, why is it hard for the politicians to deal with something important such as the debt ceiling, fiscal cliff, taxes and such but they think firearms is a easy thing to tackle? Do people not remember history, or even pay attention--we fought a revolution over less taxes and a civil war for less government intrusion in the lives of Americans. Divide and conquer, stand together and prevail.

A 15 minute video summary of the proposed ban:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDglpt8hpyg#!

Thanks MD, I just emailed my representatives!

Thanks Monster Dog, Just sent out three letters to MY state folks.

Now the waiting begins and we can now only pray that sanity overcomes the allure of power.

I sent mine out last week. I heard back from two of them acknowledgeing reciept. The third has yet to bother with a response.

I had started but then got sidetracked by Christmas and the Granddaughter. Glad MD posted this up, reminded me I need to contact them. Meh, they already have my name anyway. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I sent several letters to each of my Senators so far.

Today I called them.

I was told the Dem. (Casey, PA) was considering voting yes on an AWB and magazine ban. I was disappointed by this since he apparently is rated pretty high by the NRA. I told the staff person that I did not agree and to not vote yes on anything proposed by Senator Feinstein. I gave them the reason that the broad wording and technical inaccuracies in almost everything she has presented so far would be bad for the average law abiding gun owner and won't curb crime at all.

I then did the same for the Repub. (Toomey, PA) and was told that since Feinstein's proposal wasn't presented in full yet that he did not have enough to make a decision on. I was told to consider that he was a long standing supporter of 2A rights though and that my opposition was noted.

I then emailed Casey again with a short summary of my case.

So there you have it folks, at least from one state. I believe an overwhelming amount of phone calls today will help a lot of Senators understand that Feinstein does not have the general well being of the American population in mind.

It is very easy to find their D.C. office numbers right on their web pages and have a little patience and call a few times and you will get to speak with a real person. Be kind and courteous but make sure they know you will not vote for them, ever, if they do not vote directly against anything like this.

To anyone who was on the fence or don't care about what is currently being banned, this one should affect ALL of us:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/al-sharpton-next-up-knife-control/

"If I could have banned them all - 'Mr. and Mrs. America turn in your guns' - I would have!"

Anyone know who said it?

Diane Feinstein - who else?

Wonder if she'll turn hers in along with her carry permit.

She apparently melted it down and turned it into a cross for the Pope.

No longer needs it since you and I pay for her armed security these days.

Not me, I Specifically stated I didn't want MY tax money paying anything for her and her kind.

Illinois is wasting no time in oppressing its citizens though.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=8940209

This will happen only if we allow it to happen. Everyone needs to write an email, letter or phone those dirt bags who work for us. I know there are a few that are good but they now more then ever need to hear your voice.

One way I see out of this is one big a$$ protest march on DC. The NRA needs to move in multiple fronts and organize various events to show solidarity among target shooters, hunters and plain old gun nuts who just love the history of the gun.

You would need to bring in UN troops and in a heart beat I would toss them to the ground. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

1911 - Turkey bans civilian ownership of firearms. From 1911 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were murdered.

1928 - Germany bans firearms. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill & others, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

1929 - The Soviet Union bans firearms. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were systematically eliminated.

1935 - China bans firearms. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents were unable to defend themselves and were killed.

1956 - Cambodia bans firearms. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people unable to defend themselves, were murdered.

1964 - Guatemala bans firearms. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and killed.

1970 - Uganda bans firearms. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated. In one infamous incident, the habitants of a small village took refuge in a church, where every man, woman and child was massacred with guns and machetes as they were unable to physically defend themselves.

1995 - 6,000 Bosnian Muslims were massacred at Srebrenica in the ironically named "UN safe area" after having been disarmed first (a process aided by the UN).

Food for thought.

write the speaker of the house as well as your state reps.

Just got back to this thread:

Your'e right MD and I have done my part.

I won't cast my vote differently as I already oppose My state senators whom I know will vote for the anti gun agenda. But on the miracle that they change their mind I have expressed my opinion and contacted others in my contact list to do the same.

You know ONE point to remember about "Them" not voting the way the folks they represent is that even if they only serve 4 years, the retire at basically FULL PAY FOR LIFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Talking about the American people getting taken to the cleaners!

I don't have an AK or SKS, but I do like what I have.

The more I read about what our country was founded on, and by who, the more I realize that the voting public are idiots. We are turning into a modern day Roman Empire--as long as we have our sports and out bread no one cares about politics. If it has happened in the past, it can happen again. The wolf is at the door and if we allow it we all will be gyro material.

Too many now vote on their perceived immediate benefit and only get their info in sound bites from the mainstream media. I totally agree. I am a lower middle class "worker" and I am astounded by how many of my peers actually think that the so called "Rich" pay less in taxes than they do. People are more interested in what they think will be best for them and not what's best for the country. We are in serious trouble folks.

Actually, many of the very rich find many creative ways to avoid paying taxes. Yes, in aggregate, they pay more gross taxes, but percentage wise, it's a different story, depending on the person. The uber wealthy live a rarified existence and often feel above the law and see themselves as the ruling class. There's a lot of "old money" where I am and there are some interesting stories along those lines. Funny how many of these families find their way into politics...

I prefer everyone pays their fair share, but I don't think the politics of greed, envy, and entitlement should replace the politics of independence, freedom, and self reliance.

All that aside, I can't believe that Congress has enough time to debate gun control, but not enough time to pass a budget. We elected them to do the country's business, not restrict the people's rights.

I LOVE that ^^ DT!

I will die defending my rights rather than living with none. Come try to take mine. 8)

Like the patch says Ireash, 1* If you're gonna risk it make it a worthy cause. and I can't think of much better than this. When one goes, the others follow like toppled dominoes.

An interesting article I thought you folks might enjoy.

December 28, 2012
Here's One Reason Why Someone Would Need To Own An 'Assault' Rifle
INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY
Guns: The left keeps asking why anyone needs an "assault" rifle. Here's one reason — in 2010, a Texas teen used a rifle similar to the one used in Newtown to defend his younger sister and himself from home invaders.

The left quite often exposes its raging elitism through its odious habit of asking why anyone would need the things that it doesn't like, from guns to big homes to monster trucks.

The implication is that if the elitists don't want whatever it is, then no one should be allowed to have it — except, of course, it's fine for the elitists themselves to live in energy-sucking mansions, hire armed bodyguards and drive around in gas-guzzling limousines and SUVs.

When the left asks these questions it also reveals its blinding ignorance. Is there a single Democrat, dense celebrity or condescending journalist who is aware that "assault" rifles don't just define their owners as red necks but also serve as practical protection?

Actually the total amount of what they don't know about firearms and crime is enough to crush them.

Consider that, according to FBI data, in 2007, there were 453 homicides by rifle in the U.S. Yes, that's too many. But compare that number to a few other methods of homicide employed that year.

In 2007, there were 1,817 homicides committed with "knives or cutting instruments"; "blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.)" killed 674; while "personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.)" were the choices in 869 homicides.

The number of rifle homicides has fallen steadily since then to 323 last year, as have the other three weapon classes, though each still remains a more common choice than the rifle.

In fact, when added together, knives, blunt instruments and the human body were responsible for more than nine times as many homicides as rifles in 2011.

Yet no one is asking why anyone would want to own a set of steak knives, place a heavy candelabra on their mantle or have a hammer in their garage.

The weapon used effectively as protection by the Texas teen was neither a club nor a fist but reportedly an AR-15, a rifle on which the .223-caliber Bushmaster used in the tragic Sandy Hook shootings was modeled.

Though tagged "assault" weapons, both are merely semi-automatics, just as are many hunting rifles, and all but a handful are used legally and peacefully.

But elitists on the left don't hunt — they let someone else do their killing — so how could they know?

None of this is intended to minimize the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary or any other mass shooting.

It's simply an attempt to point out that a screaming obsession over one particular weapon used less frequently to kill than knives is driven by ignorance, arrogance and a nonexistent sense of proportion.

Contacting politicians, even "the wrong side", works, as evidenced by what happened in IL today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bDJW97xBAE

And for the love of everything good lets all work together to end this one. Even pocket knife collectors and people who only own a bolt action rifle need to wake up and tell legislators that this is the end of gun control, because those items will be next.

Hip Hip Hooray! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Wow, a Chicago democrat! Not all hope is lost for the people's republic.

It pwas a .massive. call in campaign from all over the U.S.

I totally agree on how Congress can't do the real job they were elected and paid to do. Maybe we should hold their pay, not pay at all like it was originally set up, and quite giving bennies when we as a people loose ours due to the President/Congress/Washingtonites "ideas".

I wanted to cross post this here as some of your eyes might not be on the main forum these days. Sorry for the extra static, but I feel it is important to us all, not just gun owners.

http://www.scrapyardknives.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=679358

I'm currently getting funds together to upgrade my NRA life membership to endowment and to get life memberships for both of my kids.

Great thing you're doing Spider-Pig. I myself joined for 5 years sometime last year and decided to donate to their political fund for Christmas.

The NRA is not always ideal, but it is the biggest fighter in the ring.

I also donate to Knife Rights when I can spare a few bucks.

I'm so torqued about the whole situation.

We are going to have to put our money where our mouth is and stand shoulder to shoulder.

Don't shop ANYWHERE that supports causes you do not. NO MATTER HOW INCONVENIENT that might be.

I have a growing list of places I will not shop.

I am going as far as not buying from companies that are based in states where there tax dollars will be supporting craziness. You can probably guess what states that might be. If you aren't part of the cure you are part of the problem.

this story got me worked up recently. i have an account with them, although ive known about their shady practices for some time now.

http://bit.ly/WlAPlP

Yea, I've heard bad things about them. My uncle calls BofA Satan's Bank. haha. We've been thinking of switching to a credit union but it's just so dang convenient.

Does anyone know where there may be some sort of list of these companies and why they should be on it.

here is one.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/01/the-big-list-of-who-hates-guns/

A comment on the name of this thread, its no longer about just ARs or AKs.

All semi auto rifles, handguns (semi auto and double action) and semi auto (and some pump) shotguns are all on the table now.

Unfortunately, that seems like only a list of organizations, not companies. A couple anti-gunners that I know of:

- Paypal (refuses to let you spend YOUR MONEY on firearms, ammo, or the like)

- Sports Authority (pulled their guns and ammo from the shelves several years back because they didn't want to be associated with firearms)

add bank of america to that list and cheaperthandirt.com

i'll try poking around for more lists later. i definitely plan to boycott as much as possible.

I have been doing similar things for years.
Little harder here in Canada due to lack of competition but I do my best.

Guys if you want your rights. Gun rights being one of them. Talk with your pocket book.

From locally owned joints all the way corporate chains.

Antigun companies won't get my money. Companies located in antigun states wont get my money.

Either put up or shut up.

this <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

cheaperthandirt.com is anti gun? Or just prone to price gouging?

Aren't there a lot of firearms manufacturers in NY state?

They stopped selling firearms the moment this [censored] storm hit, now the climate is a little better they are suddenly selling them again at gouger prices.

They have ar15 magazines listed for $130 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Both Dick's and Cabela's removed all their black rifles in response. People who ordered black Friday deals will not get their orders honored.

Here is a small list of mine that I won't ever do business with again or use a known sponsor of (at least until I see evidence that oppose what I've seen):

* CheaperThanDirt
* Cabela's
* Dick's
* Bank of America
* ANYTHING from Gannett media ( http://www.gannett.com/section/BRANDS&template=cover http://www.gannett.com/section/WHOWEARE11 - Published maps of gun owners in NY state)
* Current TV
* Discovery TV channels (cancelled a bunch of firearms shows that I enjoy)
* AutoZone
* Any business that has a no CCW policy that I can avoid (I don't carry, but people should be able to)

Folks now is the time to get involved. Write, call email and if you can meet with your politicians.

We can let this unite us or divide us. I am all about uniting and making sure our voice is heard loud and clear.

I have been a memebr of the NRA for a while. But I'm a paper memeber. I send in my yearly check and relax.

I have taken a much different route. I am involved as I can be. I am surprised how much feed back I have gotten in a short time from politicians from other states and people in general.

You can make a difference if you dont stnad off to one side and just let things happen.

Yes!

There are just as good of products made in other states.

I know I have aid this before, but my state was all red in the last election. Now the elected senators are kinda saying one thing and then something to other groups--believe me when I say we will not forgive those who try to take out freedoms away.

This is the days that I feared would come. Hopefully we will not resort what many of our family members did in the American Revolution, the Civil War, etc. For the life of me, I cannot figure out how gun control takes precedence over the national debt, Federal budget, and the debt ceiling EXCEPT that the government knows that it would be hard to push all things down our throat while we are armed as a society.

I heard on NPR the other day that Boehner wants to wait for the Senate and Reid says he wants to see what the House puts forward! Gridlock might be good for something! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Also said Reid will get jammed up at home if he pushes something along...

Come back normal prices and availability! I want a MP Sport! And some glock mags, and a new CZ..and and... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/loopy.gif" alt="" />

...and a .308, and a 6.8 SPL, and another .223, and an XDM Compact, and....

....a Swiss bank account with $5 million....

You must have a F upped Cabela's in your town. They have been selling AR's as fast as they get them in here.

Same here.

On the web site it says "not available in Connecticut store" or something like that...

Not that much of anyplace I've been to have any. Went to one store that had a few and prices were waaaay up...other than that, I haven't seen an AR or AK since before the shooting here...

we still see a few of them here but the prices all reflect the frenzy.

definitely not the best time for me to have developed a thing for bulgarian ak47s. wish I had known what I know now 5 to 10 years ago.

Thanks for the Cabelas update. There were some rumblings early on.

As it happens they boycotted a show here in PA which didn't allow black rifles, so they are off my list again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As I live in California, I had to leave all my black rifles with my brother in Virginia(not compliant) the laws here are ridiculous. But that being said I doubt a law like that goes into effect.

I swung by a lgs and someone was in line buying a Smith and Wesson MP 15 Sport....guys said he watched 3-4 people pick it up and put it down. Was at a 'pre freak out' price too. Also has the Ruger AR in and Ruger mini 14s in stock...maybe things are getting better? Wouldn't have seen any of these 3 weeks ago here. I actually went in to buy the mini 14, but the MP at a much nicer price soured me on it.

They had a nice, lightly used Mossberg pump in 20 ga I should have gotten...might go back tomorrow and grab it...that will be a life time of use for the family and me...

So let's see some pics RN.

Things are getting worse as far as legislation goes many states are trying there hand at taking away rights now.

I got nothing! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

The kicker for me was I left work early to go there and missed the gun I want by 10 minutes! I could have left work even earlier too..uggh! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

I went thinking of buying b/c CT wants legislation by the end of the month! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />

[censored] it huh? Well keep your eyes open for another one. Check armslist.com

a show that didn't allow black rifles? lmao, that is absolutely ridiculous <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" />

"Eastern Sports and Outdoors Show"

http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-an...24715f3d91.html

PA is in for some rough times in general, tons of new state legislation being introduced by Philly politicians.

Among these an AWB (will hit magazines, shotguns and handguns too) without grandfathering.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legi...435&pn=0365

Other awful stuff is mandatory $1mil liability insurance for gun owners, a law that would make it illegal for anyone with completely innocent mental illness (ever had a xanax prescribed?) to own guns, plus much more.

The silver lining is HB357 (great number huh?) which will make federal gun legislation unenforceable in PA. I don't think it will protect against new state laws though.

I do feel for you guys that have states that want to tread on the Constitution and make more meaningless feel good legislation. Unfortunately, I think a lot of that thinking will spread to other places where we do have a better understanding of the Constitution.

Why is it that people can not see that the guns are not the problem, but the people. Why do we not ban people instead of banning innate objects?

We are getting ready to take it to the politicians. My group is starting to ship off letters to Govenors starting with New York. We are already working with NY assemblyman Steve McLaughlin,

I am starting to work with State and National Politicians in/from my state as well. Grassroots stuff but it's taking hold.

Gonna be a long road MB but if we keep at it we can win. Never give up. Never give in.

I guess we are talking about various things...so I won't feel bad about derailing the thread...so check this out and the msrp...think I'm turning into a real cz fanboy!

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/612HomeDefense/

You going to buy one RN?

Nice I may pick one up considering that it should be under msrp in stores.

I was on a CZ forum and saw it mentioned. I love my cz 22 rifle and like my cz 9mm a lot...been thinking about a bolt action in 7.62 too- think the CZ bug has bit! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was slow on a used Mossberg a couple days ago, so a nice affordable shotgun sounds nice to me! I do bet the maverick by mossberg is great for the price, just awakens the whole pride in ownership thing. CZ seems solid to me... [b][/b]

it looks good. comes with 2 barrels so does double duty. is this a 870 clone?

I did go ahead and place an order. Part of it was being frustrated that I missed the Mossberg I wanted. Partly b/c I've looked at the maverick 88 a few times and figured I would end up wishing I had spent more for the Mossberg 500...plus I like CZ a lot...we'll see what CZ via Turkey means! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Seems to be at a nice price point and figure if the Mossberg I want appears, I can always flip this...

I can't wait to see the pics

Yeah, pics or it didn't happen! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I bought a nice pump shotgun recently too, just love shooting those <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thinking of getting another shotty, specifically the FNH SLP. But not until this whole semi auto ban craze goes away, its too expensive to hand over to be melted down.

Rich, the company that makes the CZ shotgun also makes them for Weatherby and maybe a few other companies. They're all basically the same gun and I hear they're an excellent value.

It should be in tomorrow...and last night I got a line on the Mossberg I want in a store down south via gunbroker! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" /> Ain't that the way! "Ah yes, here's the new shotgun...so...lets put this on consignment!" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Rich, nothing wrong with having a couple shotty's! Which Mossy are you looking at?

Wrong thread, deleted.

500 persuader 18.5" with stock- but in 20 ga. I figure my son is growing and wife has a better chance of shooting a 20 ga. Also, in my small condo, I can't imagine that a 20 ga with #4 buck shot would not be a fine defensive weapon.

Rich, I have hunted with a 12, 16 and 20 gauge shotguns. I do not waterfowl hunt and have never felt hindered by using ONLY a 20 gauge. of course your experience may vary. Oh ALL I ever used was 6 1/2 shot and at times 5.

Just for what it is worth. AND I agree with you about the distance/condo thing. AND while we are on the subject, I MUCH prefer a shotgun with a pistol grip stock. Just some food for thought.

I think 20 gauge is a great choice for home defense. I bought a 12 gauge hd gun a few years back and I regret not getting a 20 gauge instead. I've been seriously considering buying a 20 gauge 870 and sbs-ing it, then I can just turn my 12 gauge 870 into a bird gun.

There it be...with a War Dog for the Yard and a karambit for Randy! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />





Crappy pics, but you get the idea. Feels great actually. It's light...is so light that I don't think shooting heavier loads would be much fun though! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I'm now stalking two Mossberg 20 ga in gunbroker right now, so we'll see if it stays or is going. When I picked it up though, I thought- "won't be too bad if it has to stay! Fits me well..."

I was actually really pleased to find out this lgs sells tons of CZ's- they had the 527 Carbine in 7.62 I've considered. Haven't seen them anywhere and guy was like "of course we have them!" If there is no evil black gun in my future- I'm getting that carbine for sure. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Nice. Lazi is looking for a 7.62 bolt also.

was resisting but i've been called out. RN you already know i need pricing and contact info on the 527...

so weak...