Design of the car (size?), UAW, Quality control I mean everything is against them. Chance of them coming back in the fight is very slim.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I keep trying to justify buying a Saiga shotgun to myself. The frustrating thing is that, with Mr. Obama in office, it will only be a matter of time before you can't get them anymore. Russian, AK47 appearance, autoloading, large capacity removable magazines... Yeah.

An AK47 semi auto shotgun....potentially still legal here in the UK if it was put on your firearms license for "practical shotgun" competitions...LOL...
more fire power than just about anything I can think of for close quarter work...nocks our "banned" pistols into a cocked hat...

Reminds me of Samuel Jackson in "Jackie Brown"...." the AK47 when you absolutely positively got to kill every MF'er in the room"....

Now THAT would be a turn up for the books if we over here ended up still being able to own one of these....when they were banned in the US...

Personally I think you would only have one over here until your firearms licensing officer realised what they were....but...that could be quite a while..
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As a random example of why I don't expect this product family to survive long in the upcoming presidency, here's a tweaked Saiga 12 gauge: http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/9882/saiga12sisp3009ak8.jpg

Need it to look even more like an AK47? No problem.
http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_12/large/saiga-aks12_wood_400.jpg

Sporting use? Very, very debatable. This sort of thing is anti-gun-freak ammo. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> It doesn't look like this coming out of the box*, but the fact that it can easily be changed...


(* here's a virgin one for comparison http://www.keepshooting.com/productimages/firearms/shotguns/saiga12gaugeshotgunbig.jpg )

Well, there is even more to contemplate when you see them tweaked to full auto selective fire....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUe4NWiOq5A&feature=related

Or there is this one...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jPI5j3jjqo&feature=related

Cannot seem to get a direct link....but highlight and copy the link and enjoy...

Pretty much the most formidable close quarter firepower in a shotgun that I have seen....the exception is the AA12 which with sabot grenades is quite amazing....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c&NR=1

i hope obama will not touch the 2nd A. He will have bigger fish to catch during his term...

My guess is that it depends where the election funding came from and who might demand their "Quid Pro Quo"....the Courts may be able to stop this but not if he appoints his own Supreme Court Judges sympathetic to a different 2nd A interpretation....the "intended to apply to a militia" school of thought...and thereby distinguishing the citizen of today from what was then a mandatory "military" role...

In which case once a new test case is heard then if it goes down that road new legislation could follow....probably take two years from now...

Then we will see the SHTF and he might bite off more than any government could chew....I very much doubt it would be "sudden" though...more likely a "death by a thousand cuts" series of laws which make things harder and harder...probably by empowering greater State Law discretion...in which case it will be more and more important to carefully consider where you live...

Having been to Knob Creek....Kentucky looks good...some guys were even allowed to own stuff like this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHf_vMd5MOQ&feature=related

Now they may have been uber level whatever arms dealers....but they let a lot of civilians have a play....maybe not as high tech as the weapons in the link...but still very Cool....

So look after that 2nd A.......

An impressive device, that. I don't personally see the immediate usefulness of it, but it is definitely intimidating. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

As far as Mr. Obama and his agenda, tightening down on the second amendment may be something he's interested in because of the much larger problems on his plate. Start at the easy end to show you're working on the popular issues. He'll need a quick "win" to gain people's confidence, and the economy is definitely not something that can be fixed instantly just by pressing the right button.

As an aside, when did our country forget that the second amendment was designed to protect us from tyranny as a general concept, and not specifically tyranny by the british or french or other contemporary threats of the late 18th century. It is clear to me why the federal government would be interested in spindoctoring people's outrage at shootings and crimes into a self-disarming hatred of firearms, but when did people become so foolish as to believe that...

It's strange that the folks who claim that the Second Amendment is about the rights of the State to maintain a national guard will tell you that the other amendments within the Bill of Rights are about protecting individual freedoms. In fact, based on the 1939 United States v. Miller Supreme Court ruling, the specific protection is for military arms. The Second Amendment isn't about hunting and it isn't even about protecting your family from crime. The Bill of Rights is about individuals being able assemble, exchange ideas and voice dissent, and to protect their liberty by force of arms if necessary.

You are right Jim...let's hope it stay's that way. Momaw is quite perceptive in his assessment IMO...let's hope the easy fix is not gun control...

First good skim of ice on the pond this morning. It kinda hazed over yesterday but it vanished as soon as the sun hit it. Pretty brisk out there this morning though! Thermometer reads 22F, 17F with the wind chill.







I love the sound you get when you wing a rock across thin ice. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Toing-toing-toing.