Quick Version: I'd love to see a field test of the MPLE!

Verbose Version: Alright, so everyone knows the speculation. Will Scrap Yard 154cm actually be hard-use? Being a strong believer in empirical evidence, i say there's only one way to find out. On behalf of all of us who were unable to buy MPLE at Blade, I'm calling on those of you out there who use you knives to conduct some real, field testing of the knife. I'm not hoping for anything comprehensive, but just some pics and reflections on how the knife handles with slicing, fuzzy stick making, drilling, and perhaps some light batoning. Just the sort of things you'd do with a small knife.

I'm considering buying this knife, so I'd love to know what its capabilities are.

Thanks in advance, i know there are some of you out there who use you knives and will come through for me

-Cloak

Cloak..... Bruce now you.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />.....

Just messin' a little. I like seeing field tests myself. I just have confidence and feel pretty condident in what to expect - very good performance for a knife this size and for tasks a knife this size would be expected to do. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Based on what you are requesting to see done to the MPLE, I would call the tasks requested very basic routine work for most ANY small 3" - 4" bladed knife and I honestly feel most any half worthy knife blade steel with similar size, shape and thickness to the MPLE (once properly sharpened) should be able to manage "slicing, fuzzy stick making, drilling, and light batoning".

To me, 154CM is proven enough for certain knife designs. Busse's track record of incredible heat treatments just gives me more confidence in the MPLE and HCLE.

I am very confident Busse's 154CM will be way above half worthy.

The key is in the design. I would be very dissappointed to see Busse use 154CM for an S7. But, for this well designed little MPLE, it is a GREAT choice. I think it is a better steel choice for the MPLE than SR-77.... IMO - **** And based on how "I" would use this knife. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Cheap little Mora's can do most of what you are asking, but I don't feel Mora's are best with battoning and drilling due to their very thin blades.

The MPLE has plenty of thickness to be sufficient at drilling and light batonning. And yet not "too" thick. It is still thin enough with good blade geometry/height/grind/etc. to be good at slicing and sufficiently thick and tough for reasonably light drilling and batoning.

If you are concerned about 154CM being able to handle those tasks, that won't even be a challenge for 154CM. Much lesser steels from lesser companies can do that.

But, at least you are being realistic about what a 3.5" bladed knife "SHOULD" be good at - As opposed to chopping cinder blocks and using for a step up for climbing or similar. Busse may have made 154CM capable of similar severe abuse, but 154CM is not going to be as good as SR-77 at high torgue stress.

If you don't already own a Mudder grip handle, all I can say is that I personally own the SS4 and Bog Dog and the both feel VERY good in my hands. But, I acknowledge that there are a lot of different hand sizes and shapes out there along with different preferrences. My hands are fairly large, but not terribly thick. I typically wear XL gloves as large tends to be a little short or tight. I were a size 12.5 wedding ring, but I have larger knuckles than meat on my fingers. So, ring is tight over my knuckles and loose on my finger - somewhat annoying. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> But, you get used to it over the years. Anyway, for me, I am VERY confident in the ergos and comfort of the Mudder handles.

The Blade shape is OUTSTANDING for task and chore use, along with great potential for woodcraft and similar. This flat grind spearpoint type blade and similar variations is a proven blade design. The blade is basically an improved AD blade - Improved from the AD (IMO) in that the choil on the MPLE should be moderately functional on the MPLE vs. the choil is NOT functional on the AD. Yet many people love the AD. The AD really is an awesome knife except for the Talon Hole and choil (IMO).
But, this blade design and similar variations have been proven on many other great knives as well.

Without even handling the knife, I am confident in the MPLE.

I hope to have a MPLE in my hands later this week. I never take my camera out in the field or yard with me. Maybe it is time. But, for me, you will need some patience. Don't have it here yet and will need to find the time to get out and take pics. Also, I have a hunch I will need to do a little edge work for optimal performance.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> But, in all fairness, most any factory blade edge can be made better on a strop.

I recently made me a new two sided leather strop with compounds. I love when my knives are razor/shaving sharp. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Somehow I feel somebody else will jump in with test pics before I can even get a chance.

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I'd love to see some abuse/failure testing. I don't doubt the 154CM at all, especially in these small blades, but its just comfortable knowing the limits of a material even if it is vastly beyond any reasonable application.

I'm afraid I'm with knifeguy on this, what exactly do you think you are going to do with such a small knife that could cause it to fail ?
I can make fuzz sticks with a cheap made in china paring knife without edge damage.A skinny cheap Mora can stand up to light battoning and drilling wood.
The only test I could see where you might damage the edge is to batton through some knots in some hard oak ! This would even be limited due to the short blade length !!!!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ..... sad day when people are "afraid" to be on "YOUR" side ..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


.... For the record, Eric has said the shop took some pics. Eric said:


" posted May 16, 2008 03:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As soon as I get them from the shop I'll post them. So far I haven't received the pics, please remember this is the busiest time of the year at the shop and sending me pics is not high on their list. They are trying to get the LE's done for the pre-orders and then something else done for Blade"


See: Topic: Premiere and Pre-order of the new blade is NOW!!! - pg. 3


..... remember "Two Weeks" ..... in Busse time! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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I was going to do a test, but I have absolutely no desire to try to break the HC. This is a very nice little EDC and with the new edge, cuts as well as a Bark River. It is plenty rugged for any chore I might try with a small knife, but I don't do destruction testing and never have.

Most of us are quite happy to see you use it as it should be used Vic ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Looking forward to the great pics as always !!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

+1

To be clear, any tests I would do would NOT be with intent to destroy.

I would only use my knife as I would feel it should be used. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I am very confident it will be PLENTY capable for the chores and duties discussed above. No vices or cinder blocks in my testing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Someone else is more than welcome. But, I prefer to respect my tools. If I am ever in some sort of survival situation, I would try to make sure my tool survives as well. My tools survival might equate to my survival. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />


Nevertheless, I can imagine a certain level of extreme toughness possibly required for military, SAR, EMS or similar.

In survival, you have time to do things a certain way. In battle or extreme emergencies under time constraints, certain tools are MUCH more likely to be abused in excessive ways.

For "EXTREME" scenarios like military, SAR, EMS, etc., I guess I would recommend INFI, followed by HRLM/Yard Keeper, DM/RMD.

But, currently, the only Busse and kin 3.5" blade that you might realistically acquire is an INFI AD at well over $200.

The Swamp Rat Warden is 3.0" blade and with a handle that doesn't quite fit right in my hand. The Scotch Dispenser also has a 3.0" blade, but it has a three finger handle. I have not handled the Scotch Dispenser, but I feel confident that it is not my thing. - To each their own.

For my purposes, steel choice is important, but if the steel is "Good Enough" design and feel in the hand start becoming a HUGE part of the factor for me.

Any way you slice it, the MPLE and HCLE are going to fill a niche. I feel confident they both fill their niche very well and be PLENTY tough for any normal cutting, chore, task or bushcraft use. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Let me put this a different way:

For all the people who use a knife this size and use a knife this size for tasks that you might possibly use a knife this size for, INFI or SR-77 or similarly tough steel would have advantages in the area of toughness where that toughness is relavent probably about 00.01% or less of the time.

The other 99.99% of the time, this size knife will be served VERY well by 154CM.

INFI would be better "across the board" except for some minor and insignificant levels of corrosion resistance, but at about 2 times the cost.
And I don't feel the cost of INFI is justified in this knife.

SR-77 is probably only better in toughness that only applies in a SMALL percentage of the possible applications. In most other applications, 154CM would probably be better than SR-77 - *For "THIS" knife.

Just my opinion....


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Now if the AD were "Designed" and looked more like this:




...... then I might be willing to pay a little more. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

......$175 - $185 sounds reasonable and fair. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

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Well, I didn't intend to do a destruction test, but it turned out that way. I broke the tip off (about .5").

Well.... Personally, I consider whacking my blade edges of ANY of my knives against other types of steel as destructive.
I don't do that with ANY of my knives including INFI knives or folders. And so, No, I won't do it with the HCLE or MPLE.

Even though a ball-peen hammer will have softer steel than most knives, most any steel is still hard enough to at least deform if not possibly even chip a thin knive's edge.
It may or may not chip the blade. I don't know. I am not interested in intentionally trying to find out on "MY" knives.

For the record, Ball-peen hammers are more often than not harder than typical hammers. Ball-peen hammers are made for shaping and working with other types of steel. So, they are intentionally hardened more.
Other hammers like claw hammers, framing hammers and such are left a little softer to help prefent metal chips from flying in your face. But, ideally, they are hard enough to not deform like a mushroom with extended use. That is another story.
Hammers range in hardness quite a bit. They can be as soft as 42HC and even as hard as up to 58HC or so. Do you "know" how hard your hammers are?

I would rather chop through "certain" cinder blocks than whack a ball-peen hammer with my knive's edge. Cinder blocks will chew up your blade for sure. Most of the particles that make up a cinder block have a higher hardness than even a knife. But, at least the smaller particals tend to seperate and chip out of the way.... Unless you chop into a cinder block with heavy/large aggregate pieces that don't chip out of the way. A given large partical of rock that is well imbedded into concrete will do some nice damage to most any blade. It might not "break" INFI or SR-77 or SR-101, but can do damage enough to the blade's edge to require a lot of repair to get sharp again.


A ball-peen hammer might not be as hard as certain rocks, but I am fairly confident that any steel including INFI would at least dent or roll if whacked a certain way on most other hardened steels. It has more to do with the thinness of the edge than toughness/hardness at that point.

Yes, I can grind, sand, polish and sharpen out dings, rolls and even chips. But, I don't want to. Sorry.




Afraid.... No. But, I don't consider the associated ding repair hassles worth what I think I can expect without dinging my blades. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


I can grow back flesh as well, but I don't feel like cutting it off either. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


I don't consider that type of abuse that I wouldn't do to my knives anyway worth my investment of time or money.

I will have to leave that to you or somebody else. Good luck. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />



This is a reasonable test. But, is ONLY of value if and only if you have "EXACT" or very close edge profiles and sharpness on comparable knives to compare to.

Otherwise, the test is just an opinion.


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