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More images from the paleolithic #251721 11/17/08 03:44 AM
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Momaw Offline OP
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[Linked Image from momaw.kikaimegami.com]
^ Latest points made, now using blue slate instead of brown. These are incredibly thin (the middle one is less than a sixteenth inch). Probably too fragile to hunt with, but neat anyway.

[Linked Image from momaw.kikaimegami.com]
^ A slate saw. The teeth on the left side were my initial effort, and the teeth on the right side were made after some hands-on experience. Over all, this saw is incredibly crude and slow. I sawed through a piece of 1"x1" pine in about two minutes. However it does leave a nice flat sawn face, unlike faster and more aggressive methods like burning or chopping. Some of the older, obsolete, teeth have been ground off to make the stone easier to hold; also the back side (bottom-left here) has been smoothed because this is where all the hand pressure is applied. I have designed this saw only to cut on the push stroke.

[Linked Image from momaw.kikaimegami.com]
^ Tried to get a nicer picture of the teeth, but it didn't really come out. I found that an effective tooth pattern was to cut into the stone from alternating sides, such that the notches are sloped 45 degrees forward: / \ / \ / \ as well as 45 degrees below horizontal, so that you end up with triangular "lands" sticking up on alternate sides of the stone.

[Linked Image from momaw.kikaimegami.com]
^ The saw in action. You can see by the quality of the sawdust that it is more of a focused abrasion process than any kind of slicing and chiseling action like a modern steel saw. The saw seems reasonably robust, it made 3 cuts without a noticeable decrease in cutting speed. It would be easy to maintain , as I would simply need to use my shaping tool to reiterate the existing grooves.

[Linked Image from momaw.kikaimegami.com]
^ Cordage made from cattail plants. Here we have a 4-stranded flat braid and 3-stranded flat braid made from the leaves, and a 2-stranded twist "thread" made from the stem fiber. Catcord has a surprisingly high breaking strength! The two braided pieces here could probably hold 20-someodd pounds of dead weight. For best strength, use only healthy green leaves and discard all signs of rust or insect damage. Catcord has little abrasion resistance however, and will quickly be compromised by things rubbing on it.

Re: More images from the paleolithic [Re: Momaw] #251722 11/17/08 05:06 AM
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Wow, that is really cool. CnD and I have just tried/begun flint knapping. It's really hard. I'm sure using rock would be harder.

That saw looks really well done. Looks like it would make some great notches.

I have a question about making cordage. I've been trying to use fresh big leaf maple sapling bark and some sort of long tall nettle like plants to make cordage. However, I don't have the luxury of placing them under a long stream or water for several hours/days/weeks to expose the fibers. Do you know any other way of extracting the fibers with out soaking them? I've tried using a knife and scraping along the the length of the material but that usually destroys it.


JYD #54 "Put your hands high, let your arms be the pillars that be holding up the sky..."
Re: More images from the paleolithic [Re: Sharp] #251723 11/17/08 06:12 AM
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If you don't have time to soak the fiber (trivia, this is called "retting"), you might try beating it out instead. Just get yourself a flat surface, lay the stuff out, and work it over with a light mallet until it starts fraying.

For the more technologically gifted cave man, I found a wire brush to be very useful in fiber work. Lay the brush bristles on a bundle of fiber, bear down to keep the brush stationary, and just pull the whole bundle through it. Has to be done while fresh.

I don't have direct experience with either of the fibers you mention so I'm really not much use to you. I can offer the insight though that blades are a no-go when you're trying to separate natural fibers. It's tempting to scrape, I know, but I have NEVER seen this work. The fibers are soft and bendy, and the blade bites into them too easily. You need to break the fibers apart either by mashing, tearing, or decomposition. This is assuming you need to break the fibers apart at all: the braided cord shown above is made from whole cattail leaves. If you're dealing with something of grasslike thickness and pliability, I'd try working it in the raw.

Let us know what you find out. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: More images from the paleolithic [Re: Momaw] #251724 11/17/08 08:51 AM
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Very cool stuff. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />


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Re: More images from the paleolithic [Re: MRpink] #251725 11/18/08 03:41 AM
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Great paleolithic work, Momaw! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Good cordage making can be a challenge to learn, looks like you've got it down! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />


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Re: More images from the paleolithic [Re: Rainwalker] #251726 11/18/08 04:04 AM
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This looks really interesting !!Any links or sites that show details ? Thanks for the great pictures.


KILLER DAWGS JYD# 61
Re: More images from the paleolithic [Re: ordawg1] #251727 11/18/08 05:00 AM
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This looks really interesting !!Any links or sites that show details ? Thanks for the great pictures.

Well grinding slate is just something I've picked up, there is very VERY little information about it on the web other than "Yeah, people did it". The most well known being Inuit "ulu" knives. Everybody is into knapping instead. Yes, knapping makes much sharper and stronger edges, but slate is common (more so than knappable stone) and easy to work. Arrow points, spear heads, and small knives have been found made of ground slate. The saw is just something I wanted to try, I don't even know of any artifact stone saws.

Stone grinding is ridiculously simple though, just find yourself a chunk of slate. Home and garden shops sell slate paving stones, you can get a LOT of stone very cheap: a 12x12 inch paving stone is good for dozens upon dozens of arrow points. Slate cutting boards are another easy place to get slate, especially if you find one that somebody dropped and broke, because then they're free. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> You also need handy pieces of stone to grind with. Slate is soft, pretty much anything can be a grinder. You can break slate into thin sheets with a flat head screwdriver (I have a stone wedge I use instead for purity's sake). The only thing I must insist on and underscore for budding stone-grinders is that stone dust can lead to permanent health problems. Grind your stone wet so that the dust makes a slurry, and you don't breath it.

If you need some inspiration, here's some in-process shots of an arrowhead being made and some action shots of a stone ulu.

Making cordage though, there's lots of info on that. Just search for "cordage cattail" and pick your favorite. There are many other fibers that work well too, I just play with cattail a lot because it's easy to harvest and we have acres of the stuff.

Re: More images from the paleolithic [Re: Momaw] #251728 11/21/08 04:10 AM
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If you need some inspiration, here's some in-process shots of an arrowhead being made and some action shots of a stone ulu.

Very cool stuff !! You look pretty serious and your work is great-Thanks !


KILLER DAWGS JYD# 61
Re: More images from the paleolithic [Re: Momaw] #251729 11/21/08 04:17 AM
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If you don't have time to soak the fiber (trivia, this is called "retting"), you might try beating it out instead. Just get yourself a flat surface, lay the stuff out, and work it over with a light mallet until it starts fraying.

For the more technologically gifted cave man, I found a wire brush to be very useful in fiber work. Lay the brush bristles on a bundle of fiber, bear down to keep the brush stationary, and just pull the whole bundle through it. Has to be done while fresh.

I don't have direct experience with either of the fibers you mention so I'm really not much use to you. I can offer the insight though that blades are a no-go when you're trying to separate natural fibers. It's tempting to scrape, I know, but I have NEVER seen this work. The fibers are soft and bendy, and the blade bites into them too easily. You need to break the fibers apart either by mashing, tearing, or decomposition. This is assuming you need to break the fibers apart at all: the braided cord shown above is made from whole cattail leaves. If you're dealing with something of grasslike thickness and pliability, I'd try working it in the raw.

Let us know what you find out. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I actually have tried beating out the fibers using the flat of the knife. For some reason, I still shear the fibers. Maybe I need to refine my techniques a bit and find some other material to best with. I know that certain portions of the bark work. The dead maple that we used for our debris shelter did have some really nice paper thin sheets of connected fibers. A little soaking would have separated the fibers well.

And yea scraping doesn't work. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Epic Fail!!! (For me that is <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)

I'll see what I can do this weekend and post it up.


JYD #54 "Put your hands high, let your arms be the pillars that be holding up the sky..."
Re: More images from the paleolithic [Re: Sharp] #251730 11/21/08 04:44 AM
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Will look forward to what you come up with. Have a great weekend.


KILLER DAWGS JYD# 61

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