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Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders #263083 02/03/09 10:39 PM
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Andy Wayne Offline OP
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Idiots...

Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders

February 02, 2009
On Jan. 11, 2009, Hawaii Senator Les Ihara, Jr. introduced Bill 126 that would essentially ban folding knives throughout the state. In a letter to the senator, David Kowalski, of the American Knife & Tool Institute, laid out why the bill is bad for law-abiding knife owners.

Currently, Hawaiian law applies only to possession of switchblades, enforceable at the felony level. Bill 126 would expand the scope of knife regulation to include folders. However, the penalty would be a misdemeanor, not a felony.

What follows is Kowalski's letter.

Dear Senator Ihara:

The bill you introduced last week (HI S 126) would make de facto criminals of tens of thousands of your law-abiding citizens and potentially millions more who visit your beautiful state each year. It reads, in part…
A BILL FOR AN ACT RELATING TO DANGEROUS WEAPONS. BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF HAWAII:
SECTION 1. Chapter 134, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to part III to be appropriately designated and to read as follows: "Section 134- Pocket knives; sale prohibited; penalty. Any person who knowingly manufactures, sells, transfers, possesses, or transports a pocket knife in the State shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. As used in this section: "Pocket knife" means a knife with a blade that folds into the handle and which is suitable for carrying in the pocket."

On behalf of the American Knife & Tool Institute (AKTI), which represents the $1 Billion sporting knife industry in the United States, I would ask two things of you.

First, please call me at your earliest convenience to discuss this proposed legislation. I understand you have introduced the bill at the request of a constituent. It would be important to understand your goals and those of your constituent. While passing a knife law might seem a simple issue, there are grave consequences if it is vague, discriminatory, highly discretionary or simply so broad it is unenforceable.

AKTI has worked successfully with lawmakers in several states to make sure their knife laws support the goals of law enforcement, mesh with the needs of a diverse and strong economy, preserve the heritage of men and women who hunt, fish, and enjoy a broad variety of outdoor recreation, allow the construction industry to function at a high level, and preserve the rights of ordinary citizens who may have carried a knife their entire life to open letters and do some pruning in the rose garden.

Secondly, I would ask you to consider just a few issues that might give you some new insight into the issues that your bill raises.

Broadly, AKTI supports rational, equitable knife laws. Simple possession of a knife should not be punished. Knives do no harm unless used by someone who intends to harm. But we do support significant punishment of anyone who uses a knife in the commission of a crime.

Every five years, our U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service documents the impact of hunting and fishing in each of the
50 states. Released in the fall of 2007, its 2006 National Survey of Fishing, Hunting, and Wildlife-Associated
Recreation documents that, nationally, hunters and fishers spend more than $76 Billion annually (State statistics page attached).

Hawaii benefited from an estimated $163,363,000 spent by hunters and fishers in 2006. Since most hunters and fishers carry knives, we should not subject them to prosecution for knife possession or jeopardize that vital revenue.

Your marine and sport fishing industry is heavily dependent on knife usage. To forbid pocket knives on the docks and marinas of Hawaii would be an economic disaster and an enforcement nightmare.

Speaking further about economics, AKTI published its own report in 2007 entitled The AKTI State of the Sporting Knife Industry. Projections from the AKTI study peg annual sporting knife revenue at the manufacturer/importer level in Hawaii at $41,686,375.

Sales at Hawaii distribution and retail outlets would nearly double that number to some $82 million. That’s a
lot of jobs, taxes and economic vitality. When you run those dollars through all the local economies affected, the total economic impact of the sporting knife industry in Hawaii approaches $492 million annually.

The construction trades are heavily dependent on workmen using knives. They carry them from homes to job sites and back again daily … millions of times each day. I am not an expert on the Hawaiian construction trades, but ask yourself how many of these people could keep Hawaii building and growing without all their necessary tools.

Carpenters, electricians, plumbers, auto mechanics, farm workers, greenhouse staff, lawn care workers, tree trimmers, nursery and garden center staff all use knives daily. Scientific research is significant in Hawaii where pocket knives are commonly used to procure samples. Then there are thousands of gardeners throughout the islands, many of whom carry a knife on their person. To bust every grandmother in her rose garden for carrying and using a pocket knife would be a social disaster beyond measure.

I have been to Hawaii several times. My small folding knife goes into checked baggage when I fly but then I carry it when I go biking or whale watching. Multiply me by millions of visitors who hunt, fish, hike, rock climb, bike, kayak, canoe, deep-sea fish, snorkel or scuba. Do you really want to threaten all those law-abiding visitors with arrest for carrying a small pocket knife? Whether they come from the continental U.S. or the Pacific Rim countries, their tourist dollars are very discretionary dollars and they can take them elsewhere.

Knives are man’s oldest tools. We don’t ban automobiles or cameras or computers because they have become more complex in mechanism and materials, more sophisticated in design, more aesthetically rich, and focused on ever-narrower market niches. We don’t ban baseball bats or golf clubs because they can cause physical injury.

Ideally, AKTI’s position is that knife possession of any sort should be permitted. AKTI’s ideal law would read, "A knife is illegal only if it is carried with the intent to assault or harm another person." However, I recognize that Hawaii already bans switchblades (and I have attached your current knife statute).

AKTI and AKTI members urge you to withdraw your bill since, as it is written, it would be a broad-brush attack on millions of law-abiding Hawaiian citizens and visitors. Its economic impact on several vital industries would be disastrous, especially given our current economic climate.


JYD #4
Re: Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders [Re: Andy Wayne] #263084 02/03/09 10:45 PM
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MRpink Offline
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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif" alt="" />


That's just sad to hear. Knives don't make criminals. Might as well ban scissors while they're at it.

ATKI makes some good points, hopefully they withdraw the bill.


JYD #56 Scrap Yard Sword Club #00
Re: Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders [Re: MRpink] #263085 02/03/09 11:05 PM
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northern1 Offline
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i just cant understand why "folders" are seen as a problem but fixed blades are O.K.

of coarse they are both O.K. but the very reason switch blade & butterfly knives are illegal is because how fast they can open and its the same reason New York City is calling any folder that can open with its own centrifugal force {basically by a flick of your wrist} a "Gravity knife" including fold open box cutters like "the super knife".

i've got a knife that will deploy faster than any switch blade,assisted opener or butterfly knife and the reason is because its open at all times and its called a fixed blade.

folders are bad but fixed blades are O.K.....its amazing that people this stupid make it to adulthood,let alone employed and even worse appointed by the public.whats that say about them.

i'm gonna go on and on if i dont shut up now.this is just a taste of the future.depressing.

Last edited by northern1; 02/03/09 11:25 PM.

Northern-1...aka Bad2TheBone...aka NorthernMarsh 1st member of Scrapyard hatchet/hawk club
Re: Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders [Re: MRpink] #263086 02/03/09 11:13 PM
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meatcutter Offline
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Banning knives wont cure crimes or even reduce the crime level,If my intention is to harm someone and my knife is simply an instrument of my intent then it could easily be replaced by a piece of broken glass,a screwdriver or a sharp stick!A knife is more than a weapon it is a tool and to the masses who use knives daily,for something like CUTTING MEAT! or a maybe a loose thread from a jacket the last thing I usually think of my knife as is a weapon.It can of course be used as such.If I run someone over with a car,does that make all cars deadly weapons?This is typical of our society to blame anything but the person who does something wrong,nothing is ever anyones fault ,the blame is always on knives or firearms or videogames or movies or TV violence.


"No we will not die like dogs!We will fight like lions!"
Re: Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders [Re: northern1] #263087 02/03/09 11:21 PM
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snotpig Offline
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A taste of the future is right. Ridiculous law like this make me cringe. What is "free" when a minority can take away freedoms for the "good" of the majority? Laws like this that criminalize otherwise law-abiding citizens do nothing to curb the actual violence behind their conception.

Here's another bill - one that would affect many of us here:
H.R. 45
Once a database of all owners is gathered, then it will be easier to confiscate. ...baby steps.


JYD #68
Re: Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders [Re: snotpig] #263088 02/03/09 11:25 PM
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We will just become outlaws. Or slaves. The choice is ours. "I'm an outlaw, on steel blade I grind, pass all the laws you want, I'll pay them no mind".


Horned, dangerous, and off my medication.
Re: Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders [Re: Horn Dog] #263089 02/03/09 11:41 PM
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meatcutter Offline
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I'll always have my knives no matter what.You can always make a knife,hell some people make a good living at it!


"No we will not die like dogs!We will fight like lions!"
Re: Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders [Re: Horn Dog] #263090 02/03/09 11:50 PM
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Quote
"I'm an outlaw, on steel blade I grind, pass all the laws you want, I'll pay them no mind".

That reminds me of the "Deadliest Catch" theme song. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Great quote Vic. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Pass all the laws you want...I too will pay them no mind.

To old and too stubborn to give up any of the rights I grew up with. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Peace.


Some people just never learn.

JYD #44
Re: Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders [Re: snotpig] #263091 02/03/09 11:50 PM
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bladz Offline
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Wow, lawmakers never cease to amaze me with their ignorance. It appears to me this would just be the first step.. Actually, I take that first statement back. I do think they know what they are doing, which is even worse!

Quote
A taste of the future is right. Ridiculous law like this make me cringe. What is "free" when a minority can take away freedoms for the "good" of the majority? Laws like this that criminalize otherwise law-abiding citizens do nothing to curb the actual violence behind their conception.

Here's another bill - one that would affect many of us here:
H.R. 45
Once a database of all owners is gathered, then it will be easier to confiscate. ...baby steps.

Re: Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders [Re: meatcutter] #263092 02/03/09 11:52 PM
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Horn Dog Offline
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Quote
I'll always have my knives no matter what.You can always make a knife,hell some people make a good living at it!

Even in prison! But I really, really don't want to go there. Let's hope the Georgia General ASSembly doesn't hear about this and concentrates on stealing all our money instead. No man's life, liberty, or property are safe when they are in session.


Horned, dangerous, and off my medication.
Re: Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders [Re: Horn Dog] #263093 02/04/09 12:04 AM
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snotpig Offline
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Handgun (and semiauto) owners beware:

Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

‘(aa) Firearm Licensing Requirement-
‘(1) IN GENERAL- It shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to possess a qualifying firearm on or after the applicable date, unless that person has been issued a firearm license--


‘(A) under title I of Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, which license has not been invalidated or revoked under that title; or

‘(B) pursuant to a State firearm licensing and record of sale system certified under section 602 of Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, which license has not been invalidated or revoked under State law.


Amendment to Title 18, United States Code- Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

‘(36) The term ‘qualifying firearm’--
‘(A) means--
‘(i) any handgun; or
‘(ii) any semiautomatic firearm that can accept any detachable ammunition feeding device; and
‘(B) does not include any antique.’.


JYD #68
Re: Hawaii Bill Would Ban Folders [Re: snotpig] #263094 02/04/09 12:09 AM
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snotpig Offline
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Quote
"A knife is illegal only if it is carried with the intent to assault or harm another person."


This disturbs me as well. How does one determine "intent"? Is carrying it in a pocket with a clip intent to harm? ...in the hand? ...more than one? Minority Report, anyone?


JYD #68
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