As always, I am in awe of your steel finishing, Ban. Your jobs have that professional custom look with great attention to detail. Very nice. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

Amazing work man <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

#%$^$ - %^$#&%#^ - *%$%$%% <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> Freakin long post got deleted. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

I copied, but must have accidentally hit copy again when trying to paste instead of paste or something. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />

This DANG system that deletes posts can be a PITA. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I have "Carefully" avoided loosing my long posts for a long time now by copying before hitting continue. But, apparently screwed up and "FAILED" today. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I have some questions. So, I will try to take a deep breath and RE-TYPE my post again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />

.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I agree that removing the handle would be the IDEAL way to finish the blades around the ricasso.

That Basic 7 looks awesome as well.

But, I have been under the impression for years (somehow ???? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> )that the Res-C handles in particular were hard to remove without damaging and also hard to re-attach.

I had been under the impression (again ... somehow ???? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ) that Busse might use a special tool and/or technique to attach the handles - maybe via heat or a special way to apply pressure (?????).

I specifically asked Dan about the Res-C Mudder handles on the S5CG.
I explained my concern about "thinking" the handles might be difficult to remove (* without damaging!) and re-install because of being tight....

----------------------

and Dan replied:

"The industry talks about a slip on handle and in many cases that is true in the simplest way. Small tang, big slot...slip on...cheep production.

We do not do that...If you remember, ScrapYard Knives have an almost full tang running through the handle. There is no "slipping" it on so to speak. We use pressure, so replacing them is difficult at best

Drilling out the flare tube can be done but the issue you will encounter is the tightness of handle material to flare tube. Drilling wrecks the material that the replacement tube would need to grip making it difficult to re-secure the grip

So to be very clear, I do not recommend removing the handle. "

----------------

From Dan's reply, I assumed Dan was confirming that the Res-C handles were quite tight and likely recquired a special tool or technique to remove and re-attach.

I think it is fair and reasonable to assume that if a handle was damaged while trying to remove or re-attach that it would void the warrant.
The area around the lanyard tube seems to be a particular area of concern.


So,:


+1

Can you explain your process of removing Res-C handles and re-attaching - PLEASE?



Also, I have read quite a few threads now about flairing hollow tubes. Most of these threads are more geared towards normal scales like micarta. This is the FIRST I have seen of Res-C being removed and re-attached. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />
So, I am dying to know more. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />

Personally, having to buy CG blades and re-finish them all the time is frustrating and getting OLD. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I have said MANY times now, but it is SO much easier for a maker to properly satin finish a knife at the factory PRIOR to attaching the handle. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" />



Anyway, from the threads I have read, most people use a HEAVY DUTY vice like a Wilton. I don't have a quality bench vice, but I have looked into them. A good quality Wilton bench vice typically goes for $200 - $300 pretty beat up and used to $400 - $600 - $800 + for a new good quality heavy duty Wilton Bench Vice. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> So, I don't have one yet. I could almost buy a KMG grinder at some point.

I have looked into and tried to consider other options.

Harbor Freight has a 6 ton Hydraulic press for around $79.99 or so that should offer PLENTY of pressure, but I am concerned about being able to control the pressure properly for this type of application. I am concerned about the flare going from not flared to crushed too quickly and easily.

Harbor Freight also carries a "1 ton" Arbor Press.



I am not "sure" what type of pressure comes from a heavy duty Wilton bench vice (1/4 ton?, 1/2 ton?, 1, ton?, 10 tons????).
I have never been able to find pressure/force ratings on bench vices. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Wilton has a "steel tensile stregth rating" - they advertise "60,000 PSI tensile ductile iron" (= 30 tons), but that has nothing to do with pressure or force ratings.
So, I don't know how a 1 ton Arbor press compares to a Bench vice. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I would think 1 ton of pressue should be sufficient, but I just don't really know for sure.

My guess is that the 1 ton Arbor Press probably offers at least as much force as a bench vice and at a lower price. Most "Decent" quality bench vices of decent size go for well over $100 even if cheap (not Wilton).

Unfortunately, I am not sure what else I would ever need a 1 ton Arbor Press for. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> - whereas a good Bench Vice is potentially useful down the road for other tinkering projects. (????)

Also, most of the tutorials I have seen and read show a flaring die either fabricated or made from deck screws or similar that are just stuck into the holes of the bench vice jaw pads - very simple and convenient.

However, with an Arbor Press, I would have to fabricate some special die to work with a 1" square ram and the Arbors base. I assume I could likely come up with something.

But, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on what you might recommend for a vice/press option that is affordable and functional. (????)

----------

Also, what type of hollow tubing do you use? (type of steel? Brand? Where do you buy? Etc.?)

Any further info you can provide would be appreciated. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />

Thanks!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

.

Freaking amazing.

Looks perfect.

great work.

Ay mamacita!

Gorgeous.

in one word, BEAUTIFUL!

nice work, great looker!

Knifeguy,

Lots of questions so I will try and answer them as best I can in one post. Yes, the Res-C handles are on pretty darn snug even without the tubing. However, it is not impossible to remove. It took me a long time through trial and error to figure out how to remove them without damage to the handle or myself <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It is a proprietary method so it must remain secret. I will have to kill you if I told you.














hahaha...just kidding!
I will see if I can take some pics of the process next time around. But I will do my best to try and describe the process in words.

1) Very carefully drill out the tubing with 1/4" drill bit. I highly recommend a very sharp and fresh new bit. The reason is because sometimes the flared tubing does not hold onto the res-c with enough pressure. A dull bit will cause the tubing to spin in place and further cut into the res-c. It is does not damage the res-c too much but just makes it harder to drill because the slippage will now enlarge the soft res-c channel making subsequent drillings tough at best. When possible try to drill deep enough so that it is almost touching the metal tang.

2) Use a 1/4" punch, insert it into the drilled tubing and bend side to side until the flared tubing breaks off.

3) Now use a hammer and 1/4" punch and tap the rest of the tubing out from the drilled side.

4) Clamp the blade down onto a vise or similar device. You may want to use some soft padding if you don't want to scratch blade. I don't bother because I regrind the whole blade anyway.

5) Use a wooden block and hammer to tap the handle out of the tang. You will obviously be tapping from ricasso towards tubing. Some handles are on tighter than others so you may have to wack it pretty good. It may take a little patience but trust me it works. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

6) Re-attaching the handle after the grinding is simply a matter of pointing the tip onto a piece of 2X4 and start the insertion of the handle into the tang. From there I just use a rubber mallet to whack the handle until it is fully seated.

7) Cut a 1/4" tubing that is slightly oversized then sand it down to the proper length. I like my tubings to be about 1/32 longer than the actual thickness of the handle. Slightly more or less won't hurt anything. The longer the tubing the more pressure is required to flare. The tubings are just standard 1/4" stainless tubing that can be purchased from any knife supply places. Some places call them thong hole tubing. I like to use the ones with slight thicker walls because they are stronger.

8) Insert the tubing through the handle and tang. At this point I use a set of dies that was made for me on a lathe. But any cut-off dry wall screw heads will do. I have rehandled countless of handles using the drywall screws. The dies just makes it easier to hold and position because they are larger.

Yes, the arbor press should work. You will probably just have to exert more force on your end. The vise requires less force on the user because the threading creates more leverage. Every turn of the handle only close the
jaws a small amount. Whereas the arbor press is more of a direct leverage.

Any decent mid to large sized vice should do. Doesn't necessarily have to be a wilton. I do have to admit that I have broken a few smaller cheapy vises from rehandling.

Hope this helps. Let me know if I missed anything else.

Ban,
Amazing work and that was a very nice explination. I will leave it to the experts like you though.

Big help Ban. I appreciate it. ..... Although, you probably put "yourself" in more danger for sharing this classified info than me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> - Still, I appreciate you taking that risk for us. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />





<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" />








With exposed tang knives like micarta slabs, removing thickness from the tang while the scales are removed and then re-attaching the scales shouldn't be any problem - so long as the tang grinds are kept flat.

But, to properly satin finish the ricasso on the the Res-C knives, I assume you just sand back to a point just behind where the Res-C handle covers (???).
Does this create any gaps of concern between the handle and Res-C that are visible at the front of the handle?
Are any gaps created that are concerns for catching and holding water, debris, blood, food, etc.?

I assume the various Res-C handles are tighter or looser mostly depending on the different steel thicknesses used. I assume the Res-C handles are all pretty much cast molded with the same size tang hole. Does that seem to be the likely case?




I think the specs I read on one Arbor press were that it had a 20 to 1 crank ratio. So, to get 1 ton of press force (2,000 pounds), you would have to exert about 100 pounds of force +/- depending on leverage created by length of lever (?????), friction, etc.

But, I can't find ANY specs for Bench type vices as to what level of press force they are capable of clamping with (?????).

In any event, a Bench Vice still seems WAY more useful down the road. I am just not convinced I want to mess with paying $50+ for an Arbor Press that I can't see serving much variety of purpose for me (?????)

I can see value in having a "Good" quality bench vice. But, I am one who likes to buy "GOOD" Quality tools. I hate buying something that I later find not worthy or not quality later on. A Good Wilton should last a lifetime if reasonably maintained (kept dry and out of rain <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ) and not beat on too much with sledge hammers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think I would want to go with about a 50 - 60 pounder. Which is about a 4" - 4.5" (400 - 450 series) per Wilton. A 350 series or similar might be fine. The 350 series appears to be around 35 - 40 pounds depending on if with swivel base or not.

I gather if I understand correctly (????) that the Wilton machinest and Tradesman vices with the enclosed "bullet" housings are the better vices (?????). But, I have not personally had the opportunity to use and compare many vices. I have used a few "Cheap" open end box type bench vices and none that seemed very impressive so far.

I would not be too happy with a rickety piece of junk with wobbly jaws and rough and or poor-fitted gears. I would want a pretty decent quality vice - with smooth precision (well fitted) gears and smooth jaws without wobble! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

A new Wilton is just WAY too expensive. Hard for me to justify for what it is vs. what I could use it for. For a professional machinest, your tools are your livelihood. And while I am not a machinist, I can VERY much appreciate many of the quality tools I own have "EARNED" their cost over the years. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

So, I have a bit of dilemma about the price of a good Bench vice vs. what I "Want" and can justify.

I would think a used Wilton would offer a good option. But, those go for a high premium as well. I still can't find one that is in "decent" condition at a good price. Heck most of the used Wiltons that are horribly rusted and BEAT to SNOT still sell for a high price. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I keep looking..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Maybe some day, I just need to get my income back up to par and be able to buy some things again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paperbag.gif" alt="" />


---------

In any event, thanks a bunch for what you have taken the time to share so far. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

.