I'm shopping for a new AR and I'm looking at LMTs (BCM is not taking new orders atm), but I was wondering if it is worth the extra cost to get the gas piston version over the direct impingement?
I've heard that piston versions won't get as dirty as fast or require cleaning as much in order to actually shoot. I've also heard it reduces recoil for faster follow-up shots...

Thoughts? Opinions on this?

Thanks Dogs!

Hrm... in my experience, a DI system is perfectly suitable for most civilian use. I would only get a piston system conversion for a rifle that is probably going to be fired ALOT alot, unless it came part of an affordable package. Most piston systems, unless you convert them, aren't especially affordable.

That said, I'm eyeballing the Ruger SR-556 variants. I don't really need Mil-spec, I've got 2 Arsenal AKs for that, and I hear they're quite accurate <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I guess it depends on how you intend to use the rifle. Is it going to be a plinker, maybe a couple hundred rounds in a session, then cleaned as soon as you get home? Or is it going to be a toss about in the mud/sand, Class III lower (<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> probably not though...) Sound suppressor (gas blowback into the action from the change in pressure), hundreds of rounds between cleanings in the sandbox? Granted those are both fairly extreme ends of the spectrum. Sure, it'd be a bit easier to clean than a DI system, but unless you're burning the rifle out every session, even a DI system isn't that hard to clean. It's when a large amount of ammunition has burnt the carbon onto the internals that it becomes a PITA.

Personally, I've never had any issues with a DI system, even in my military issue weapons. I ran my M16 hard in basic, blanks, live rounds, those little blue plastic rounds that gum up the barrel when it gets hot, you name it. I hardly cleaned it except for a wipedown of the internals and a good oiling every day or two, and it had no issues (canted front sight base being the exception.) I did scrub the bore occasionally, but in basic time to scour my rifle was short <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As far as recoil a SSGT from my unit, and a friend of mine, owns a LWRC piston driven rifle. Comparing to one of his standard ARs, recoil is still negligable (it's a 5.56, lol), but the impulse feels different. The front end is heavier, so it's not as pointable, but honestly the difference isn't noticable. Not to me, anyway.

I have fired many many many thousands of rounds through my DI guns, including case after case of Wolf and even worse stuff, like funky green guatamalan surplus in water stained cardboard boxes. I have had very few reliability problems with 5.56mm AR15s that were not related to magazines.

You don't generally speaking need to clean ar15. As long as they are lubricated they will usually run indefinitely. Of course if exposed to dirt, sand, other foreign particles any semi auto firearm risks having problems.

For nearly all purposes I think pistons add nothing and have serious downsides. Generally speaking the piston guns all have different designs and parts. if something breaks are you going to be able to find spare parts? is the company making your piston system going to be around in 5/10/20 years?

If you want one because you want one, I would guess the LMT system is probably pretty good, but I have never used it. I have been perfectly happy with the regular old LMT upper I have been using since 2005

Here is my take on piston AR's. Right now htere is not a standard for piston AR's. So replacement parts may not be available or they may be difficult to get. Compatability may be an issue.

Piston AR's are a solution looking for a problem for the majority of people. If you are firing a whole lot of ammo in a short amount of time in an extremely dusty environment pistons have a slight advantage. (Think shooting in Talcum powder) They are cleaner but there are several AR's that are DI that have 50,000 rounds through them with no cleaning and are running just fine.

Like many things. Lubrication is the key to everything. You don't run a working gun dry. It needs a good lubricant in sufficient quantity and there won't be a problem.

Aimless, welcome to the Yard, good to see you over here.

As to me, DI has always been fine. Only problems I ever experienced with DI is when a bolt carrier stake job was not correct and gas was bleeding through.

As to a piston, I would like one, but don't see the need (for myself) for the price differences.

Hey, thanks for the feedback guys. I know they are more expensive and definitely not a necessity but I already have a DI so I was thinking about the GP version this time. A friend also stated that if you were to head out due to a SHTF situation, the GP would serve you better because it will keep firing without needing the cleanings. Think AK-47. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> thoughts?

As for parts, since I am buying a LMT GP AR and not a conversion kit to convert a DI to a GP, then all the parts are the same save for the piston system itself. That I can get directly through LMT.

Here is the link: http://www.lmtstore.com/complete-weapon-...-piston-16.html

Thanks again!

Filthy 14 FTW! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/filthy14_oct10.pdf

DI is fine...for much more than just the civilian needs.

If you already have a DI system...Keep it simple, and get a duplicate (i know..no fun)...but the parts will be interchangeable.

If you get mud in the action, piston or no, it won't run. ARs tend to be a lot tighter tolerance than AKs, which is where the reliability comes from in the AK platform. If you hose it down with lubricant and don't get it covered in mud and dirt, and AR shouldn't have problems either way. A clean weapon is a happy weapon, a dirty, carbon filled rifle is going to have issues at some point or another. AKs, being a weapon designed to smile at fouling and ask for more, will simply run alot longer before needing a cleaning. The Piston setup will only help to delay the inevitable a while longer than a DI, which vomits into its own mouth <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" />.

If you have your heart set on a piston, and have the coin to throw at it, the ACR is more akin to an AK than an AR. I have found that I can see daylight between the bolt carrier and the upper reciever wall through the magwell. Or a good quality AK in 5.56 might serve your purposes well too. My Arsenal SLR-106F is a tremendously accurate rifle, since it's so well built. It was cheaper even than a base AR to start with as well.

Well, thanks for all of the replies. I'm heading out tomorrow to pick up my LMT AR. I'll probably go with the piston version just because I want one. I'm also thinking about picking up a Ruger 10/22 for cheap fun shooting. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks again everyone.

The tech sights are a cool add on for a 10/22, depending what you want to do with it
http://www.tech-sights.com/

No dak spud also makes them for bull barrel 10/22


http://www.nodakspud.com/

I picked up a marlin recently and also put the tech sights on that but haven't used it, it is certainly an economical plinker. Not sure how the quality has been since marlin basically got shut down and merged with Remington

I am a big AR fan. If I had that kind of money for a piston, sure i would drop the cash. I have two match AR-15's that are .5 MOA at 100 yards. These rifles are std. and yes they build up carbon in the bolt carrier group. I have fired my rifle through the season without cleaning but only to take the bolt out wipe it down with some CPL and good to go.