I don't make it to this side of the forum much, but popped over to see Vic's review and saw this.

I am going to try to keep this short as I could get carried away.

In light of your above mentioned situation and reasons for wanting a .22 first, I have to recommend the Mark II. I have two: a slab sided stainless with a fairly shiny satin finish that is supposed to be a great target gun and costs more than the Bull Barrel and an old Bull barrel that I inherited from my dad that I used to shoot a lot as a kid. Guns do vary in accuracy as some have just a right cut or something, but in my case the old blued Bull Barrel is amazing. I can hit bottle caps and at least close enough to pop them around at 25 - 40 yards pretty regularly and very fast. I have quite a few pistols including Kimbers, Glocks, Kahrs, S&W, Para-Ordnance and others. Nothing competes with my Ruger Mark II Bull Barrel.

I like .22 a LOT for plinking and fun - not for defense. Although, at close range, perfect head shots, high performance ammo and the fact that it can be fired extremely fast with low recoil, you could put 10 rounds in a target as large as a head pretty fast <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, I am confident it could be quite deadly.

When I was younger, I used to practice shooting a single leave of Prickly Pear as fast as I could with all 10 rounds from various distances. It was pretty easy to do about as fast as I could pull the trigger.

A prickly pear leaf is about the size of a head:

[img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/146/410790969_70451ee678.jpg?v=0[/img]

I used to chop that stuff up with my first machete as a kid. I assumed prickly pear had to be a bad thing and was blown away when some old farmer guys told me the cows liked to eat it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Prickly Pear will grow a fruit that looks like this:

[img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1020/1316481301_a6313eeff2.jpg?v=0[/img]

Sure enough, I would see lots of cows with cactus thorns sticking out of their faces. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> Those thorns are like big needles. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

.... sorry for side-tracking...


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But, for "home" defense, I am a HUGE advocate of shotguns: 12 gauge shotgun first, .20 gauge second, .45 auto 3rd, .40 4th.

Pump shotguns are cheap and reliable. But, personally I am more than convinced that auto-shotguns are more than sufficiently reliable and have advantages IMO over most pump shotguns - except autos cost a lot more than pumps.
Personally, I prefer the 870 Police for a good pump, but that will run about $400 - $450. I consider the modifications worthy and the extended tube is a requirement IMO for any shotgun for self-defense. A base Remington or Mossberg would require a fair number of modifications for my preferences and you would start getting close to the cost of the 870 Police anyway.
Mossberg's can be found for less than Remington and have proven to be sufficiently reliable, but they feel cheaply made compared to Remington to me.

A good auto Remington with extended tube can get costly - probably getting to $800 - $900. (????) I don't know the market price, but here is a picture of the Remingtion 11-87 auto:



Link: Remington 11-87

Another link: Remington 11-87

At that point, you might just pay up for the Benneli M1. I have the M1 and Love it. But, those can cost $1000 - $1200.

Also, gas operated autos like the Remington and some Berettas have a really nice feel over spring like the Benneli, but Benneli M1 is considered one of the best and most reliable. I am fine with the feel of the spring in my Benneli.:



Link: Benelli M1


A great cost option that uses the same bolt action parts and spring action as the Benelli M1 is the older Beretta 1201FP.







Link: Beretta 1201FP

Another link: Beretta 1201FP

I have seen these Berettas for $500 - $600 and would have to consider that a "STEEL" if you can find similar! That would be about half the price of a very similar Benelli M1! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />


I have an older Beretta Field gun gas auto that I LOVE to shoot. The gas operation just feels sweet. - I inherited this gun from my father. It has seen field use for probably 35 years or more and "Never" jambed with ANY load.

I have always wanted to try the Beretta - A391 Xtrema2. It is intended as a Field gun, but can be modified with extended barrel and is very reliable. I don't know much about making the modifications, but maybe some day I will look into it.

You HAVE to see this video:

Beretta - A391 Xtrema2 in action


This video shows some of the reasons I like auto's over pump. VERY fast, VERY reliable and lower recoil!


Here are some of my other arguements for auto over pump:

So, in summary, here are my arguments for semi-auto over pump:

1) Semi-auto reliability is (IMO) better than "user" reliability when user is required to cycle rounds on a pump - Regardless how easy it is to pump when "thinking" about doing it. Poor pump cycling failure/jamb can happen and I believe is more potentially likely to happen than semi-auto cycling. Semi-auto reliability is VERY good and better than "GOOD" semi-auto pistols or even pump shotguns (because of user error) from what I have seen. The only time semi-auto shotguns seem to fail in cycling is when VERY light and cheap loads are used. 3" #4's are great #2's are fine. Buck shot is over-kill and I would argue the lesser volume of projectiles and over-penetration would not be as effective as more pellets and sufficient penetration. 3.5" shells and goose guns that handle them are not needed for home defense IMO. 3"ers will "get er done".

2) Because of lower recoil and because of no motion to cycle rounds, a Semi-auto does not require user to disengage target to cycle - pump requires a LOT of movement and although you can pump while keeping the barrel aimed in the general direction of the target, there is a much stronger "tendancy" and very real possibility depending on body position, to have to disengage away from target to pump/cycle a new round. In home-defense, movement behind a barrier could be a big issue. Disengaging your aim from target would LIKELY be a big issue.

3) Semi-auto WILL cycle rounds way faster than you can pump.

4) Recoil is notacably less with semi-auto. - In either spring or gas, but especially gas. Lower recoil equates to better ability to stay on target, stay focused and better follow up shots.


Arguments for Pump:

1) Price.


One "possible" downside to auto shotguns is it is not feasible to put a pistol grip on "most" auto-shotguns. I think one of the old Franchi's could be modified, but most have spring systems into the stocks. - although, I think the pros and cons of a pistol grip about weigh each other out and individual capabilities, situations and preferences probably worth considering.




-------------

For .45's, I have a Kimber and love it. I have two Para - P14's that I love as well. Although, one (the "Limited" version is more accurate than the other. ???) Again, I think accuracy just varies sometimes.

But, there are MANY very worthy .45's on the Market. Springfield and HK are both great. But, good .45's cost well over $400.

Also, if not for carry and for home defense, I don't recommend small high powered pistols. Larger and heavier pistols are not to heavy for home defense (IMO) and the weight helps control the recoil much better. Sometimes you get more rounds too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My P-14's hold 14 rounds of thumpin' .45 sweetness. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The double-stack mag of the P-14 is a little bit larger than typical 1911's, but not that much. I have large hands and it feels fine to me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I always hated Glock's until I shot one. Then I bought one. I still prefer my Kimber CDP in .45 over my Glock in .40., but the Glock is a worthy recommendation. They are very reliable and easy to shoot and function.

I am not a fan of 9mm or .380 for defense. I know they can get the job done, but with the technology available in pistols, .45 and .40 might be a little larger, but significantly better. 9mm is notorious for over-penetration, very little knock-down/stopping power and poor expansion. Careful bullet selection is a must IMO. - Although, I always recommend quality bullet selection, research and practice rounds with defensive rounds - although, that can get expensive.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Shotgun shells and .22 shells are cheap. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" />

I will stop my brief reply there.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

.

I had a lot of pictures posted and now they don't show. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I have a Beretta Neo and I beat the living crap out of it. It shoots wet, it shoots dry. I bought it to be a packpack gun and it has seen its fair share of abuse(not like i was trying to destroy it). Great little gun!! It shoots accurate and is small and light enough to do whatever you want with it. All for way under 300 bucks.

Walter p-22 set up for self defensew, 22 or not it is cool and as mine is silenced it is even cooler!!300. bucks new

S/B - Sounds like your pistol should carry the "Hit-Man Seal of Approval"! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

WHen you want the best: GLOCK!

I have 2 variants of the 9mm from Glock.

The Subcompact 9mm: G26
The Compact 9mm: G19

IMO, you wont find a better semi-automatic 9mm on the market. Period.

Keep in mind that Dave - Prince of Peace - is trying to break in his wife and daughter in firearms. You know - start small and work your way up! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Check out North American Arms if you are looking at a small piece that is dead-on reliable.

well Glock is ok if ya dont love yourself AND ya cant afford anything better


NAA is a good suggestion...I had a small 22LR revolver for a couple years...need to get another

D

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Leatherface - lets do battle!!! Talking smack about GLOCK. Blaspehmy!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />