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 Re: Busse SAR 4
[Re: KnifeGuy]
#273555
04/07/09 06:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 228
Guyon
Mutt
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Mutt
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 228 |
It's pretty simple really. You want pristine INFI, then you pay the price. Of course, everyone has to decide on his own what he is and isn't willing to pay.
I look at it like this. At times, I may be paying more than what a comparable knife might cost from another maker. However, I'm getting a very unique steel with admirable qualities across the board. It's not magic, but it is remarkable on a number of different fronts.
I'm also getting a great warranty. One that is the best in the industry, actually.
Moreover, I've bought and sold a lot of Busse knives, and I don't ever recall losing money on any of them. If you buy wisely, Busse knives hold their values.
Finally, folks associated with Busse (HOGs, Rats, and Dogs alike) are some good people, so there's a built-in community connected to pursuing some of these knives.
I happen to like satin more than coated blades in INFI, and I've been willing to pay for it so far. I'm not an "investor." The knives I wind up keeping, I wind up using. I'm a collector only in the sense that I collect a lot of users.
I understand the frustrations expressed in the previous post, but I can only respond that Busse's marketing and prices are not going to change because of posts like it. A person can complain till the cows come home, but it is what it is. Using terms like "silliness," "ridiculous," "stupid," etc. just comes across as sour grapes, and such a mentality only serves as a divider within the larger Busse community.
Live and let live, I say. Life's too short.
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Re: Busse SAR 4
[Re: MustardMan]
#273556
04/07/09 06:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,668
sumoj275
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,668 |
Guyon, I wonder what is in that mason jar? I know, water--right <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Men you can't trust, women you can't trust, beasts you can't trust, but Bussekin steel you can trust
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Re: Busse SAR 4
[Re: sumoj275]
#273557
04/07/09 06:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 228
Guyon
Mutt
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Mutt
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 228 |
Absolutely. That is 100% spring water that is there only to cut the Scotch. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Busse SAR 4
[Re: KnifeGuy]
#273558
04/07/09 06:37 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,379
Steel Fan
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,379 |
KG,before I ever came here the big "QUEST-ion" for me was what would be the best knife steel/design/size for a given function....
I am the same with rifles, pistols and optic's...
For 20 years I had my set of users which worked and never let me down...for smaller knives where edge retention was a "key" issue I had bought some "hugely" expensive custom knives in very rare steels....and whilst using them only on paper for the most part...I could tell they were superior but the design and finish of these knives makes them less than robust for harsh field use...although I have taken the best design and modified it to my preferred shape...it takes some commitment to looking "for the best" to do this to knives costing $900 as the cost depletion of a knife like this is very high...but if you want to look for "the very best" on your own dime and satisfy your own curiosity...it does cost.
None of my knives are bought as investment...all are part of this "quest"...but some are simply fondled and used on paper as sometimes that's all it takes to work out which one you prefer over an alternative...
However...if it were just a practical thing...a cheap Machete,SAK and MORA would be a useable working platform.
What is definately true is that there can easily be a selection of knives whereby you cannot seperate to any meaningful level a "betterment" in performance/suitability...and you reach the stage whereby "they are all good"!!
However...people who say "too much for me"....need to consider how many knives they actually own and at what cost....nearly everyone could have a clear out and have the very best "small, medium, large" knife combo from INFI or other super steels if they could settle for owning just 3 knives....
I keep meaning to "minimalise" like this but cannot easily find the time to test all the contenders to "know" for sure...and also if I am honest...I cannot easily part with some when they are that good.
That last reason probably accounts for my large ownership of knives more than anything else....not the "investment" aspect....
What I have come to realise is that there are "levels" of performance which need to be attained to satisfy your skills as a user...after that it is then seperating "greatness"....I would be happy with my RMD as much as I would be happy with my heavily modified Hattori Cowry X custom...the latter knife however is a better steel and better choice...but probably not worth the extra money...although I have the satisfaction of saying I "know" this from my own use and experience...which is for me worth the price of finding out...and the cost of the knife.
JYD #75
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Re: Busse SAR 4
[Re: MustardMan]
#273559
04/07/09 06:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 228
Guyon
Mutt
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Mutt
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 228 |
I haven't gotten my hands on an INFI blade yet, but you've summed up my feelings on the matter quite well - for Busse LE prices I could get some pretty amazing one-off custom knives. It's a trend I hate seeing, and reminds me a bit of cold steel. Cold steel used to make pretty good beater knives that could be gotten reasonably cheaply and performed well for the price, but the more they exaggerated the goofy marketing, and the more stuff they released in "san mai" laminated steel, the worse the cost-to-performance ratio became. Not that I'm saying CS is on the same level as Busse, but I think both companies have rabid fans that have driven up the cost of their blades to ridiculous numbers.
I have some old cheap CS kukri that works very well, but no way would I buy one of their current kukris at their ridiculous prices.
I doubt that my opinion will be much different for Busse blades, which might be a whole lot better than cold steel, but they come with a price premium to match. If I can get some REASONABLY priced INFI from the yard, I will jump at the opportunity, but 400 bucks for a 5 inch production blade is downright ridiculous.
As an aside, I've not spent too much time on online knife forums, and am unfamiliar with the acronyms - what does B1 stand for? Seems to me that comparing Cold Steel to Busse involves a far stretch of the imagination. Apples and oranges. I say that even as a Cold Steel owner. The Master Hunter in Carbon V and the Pendleton Hunter are two very good knives that have come out of CS IMO. B1 stands for Bravo 1, one of the more popular offerings from Bark River Knives. While Bark River does make some really nice products, I refuse to support Mike Stewart. I'm just going to leave it at that. KG,before I ever came here the big "QUEST-ion" for me was what would be the best knife steel/design/size for a given function....
I am the same with rifles, pistols and optic's...
For 20 years I had my set of users which worked and never let me down...for smaller knives where edge retention was a "key" issue I had bought some "hugely" expensive custom knives in very rare steels....and whilst using them only on paper for the most part...I could tell they were superior but the design and finish of these knives makes them less than robust for harsh field use...although I have taken the best design and modified it to my preferred shape...it takes some commitment to looking "for the best" to do this to knives costing $900 as the cost depletion of a knife like this is very high...but if you want to look for "the very best" on your own dime and satisfy your own curiosity...it does cost.
None of my knives are bought as investment...all are part of this "quest"...but some are simply fondled and used on paper as sometimes that's all it takes to work out which one you prefer over an alternative...
However...if it were just a practical thing...a cheap Machete,SAK and MORA would be a useable working platform.
What is definately true is that there can easily be a selection of knives whereby you cannot seperate to any meaningful level a "betterment" in performance/suitability...and you reach the stage whereby "they are all good"!!
However...people who say "too much for me"....need to consider how many knives they actually own and at what cost....nearly everyone could have a clear out and have the very best "small, medium, large" knife combo from INFI or other super steels if they could settle for owning just 3 knives....
I keep meaning to "minimalise" like this but cannot easily find the time to test all the contenders to "know" for sure...and also if I am honest...I cannot easily part with some when they are that good.
That last reason probably accounts for my large ownership of knives more than anything else....not the "investment" aspect....
What I have come to realise is that there are "levels" of performance which need to be attained to satisfy your skills as a user...after that it is then seperating "greatness"....I would be happy with my RMD as much as I would be happy with my heavily modified Hattori Cowry X custom...the latter knife however is a better steel and better choice...but probably not worth the extra money...although I have the satisfaction of saying I "know" this from my own use and experience...which is for me worth the price of finding out...and the cost of the knife. This is an astute post that I relate to on every level. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> I find myself in the same boat regarding that fine line between performance and excellence.
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Re: Busse SAR 4
[Re: Guyon]
#273560
04/07/09 06:50 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,654
MustardMan
Permanently banned
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Permanently banned
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,654 |
Not that I'm saying CS is on the same level as Busse, but I think both companies have rabid fans that have driven up the cost of their blades to ridiculous numbers.
Seems to me that comparing Cold Steel to Busse involves a far stretch of the imagination. I edited my original quote for emphasis - It's not a comparison of the companies so much as a comparison of the fans. Without a vocal fan base, I doubt people would be willing to pay almost 500 bucks on a san mai trail master, and I doubt people would pay 400 bucks for a SAR 4. Neither knife is worth its inflated price TO ME. Obviously, to fans of each company, they are, but that won't change my opinion of the prices.
Last edited by MustardMan; 04/07/09 06:51 PM.
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Re: Busse SAR 4
[Re: MustardMan]
#273561
04/07/09 06:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 228
Guyon
Mutt
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Mutt
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 228 |
Oh, I agree about some of the price inflation. Not as much on the new knives (though I'd love to see them cheaper), but moreso on the older knives. I remember being able to find SHBMs for $500 to $600, and people thought that was crazy high. Now, try finding one under a grand. Some folks have single-handedly hyped a particular model and have had an effect on the market. I saw this happen with original Satin Jacks. I've seen it more recently with SFNOs. Some of this defies logic, and I am not willing to pay these prices. Some of them, I think, will come back to earth. We've seen some such tendencies recently with the economic crunch coming into play. I think the higher prices on the newer knives has to do with a number of factors. One is just inflation in general. Metal and steel prices have continually risen over the past few years. Another factor is the Busse market. When Jerry sees how the secondary market behaves with regard to his knives, it's only natural that he's going to test prices in the market. Simple supply and demand. Jerry has very shrewdly maintained a business model of limited production, which helps to keep demand high. Also, it seems to me that more people are working for Busse, and Jerry now has a daughter to think about. Any wonder that prices on the knives have gone up a bit from 5 or 6 years ago? Still, for what you get, they are worth it TO ME and to a lot of other folks as well: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634727 What impressed me about the linked BFC thread was the number of folks who are NOT regulars in the Busse subforum who had good things to say about the value of Busse knives.
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Re: Busse SAR 4
[Re: Gambit]
#273562
04/07/09 07:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,688
MRpink
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,688 |
Pink how did your grinding go yesterday. It went very good. I noticed a lot things while grinding this one and learned a lot from it. The convex is coming out nicely. I just need to clean up the ricasso area today and it'll be ready for heat treating.
JYD #56
Scrap Yard Sword Club #00
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Re: Busse SAR 4
[Re: MustardMan]
#273563
04/07/09 07:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,586
Horn Dog
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,586 |
Most everybody reading this forum is to some degree a knife nut. I could get by with a Swiss Army, a machete, and maybe one good kitchen knife. I am stunned and amazed when I visit folks who don't even have one single blade in the house that cuts. But they know I'll have at least one on me. So knife guys like us are into performance. We have specialized knives for every conceivable chore. We love to use our knives, except maybe a few that we own just for the shear joy of having. They are works of high art to us. Busses are cult knives. That's right. It's a cult I resisted for some time, but it is a cult that only wants the finest knives ever made. They are not like anything else on earth. There are plenty of good knife brands out there, and I own models from most of them. I may not go nuts for every Busse made, and I bet not one in a thousand people involved in SAR will have a Busse SAR4. But a few will. And they know that it will never fail them. Others just collect them. While not my cup of tea, I can appreciate that some are willing to pay $400 for one. I paid the same for a fighter I may never use except to cut steak with to impress my friends. Fortunately for us, if we want a knife with Busse's high performance at a more affordable price, Scrap Yard is here. And so are we.
Horned, dangerous, and off my medication.
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Post deleted by Private Klink
[Re: Horn Dog]
#273564
04/07/09 07:22 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: Busse SAR 4
#273565
04/07/09 08:51 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 46,693
Private Klink
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 46,693 |
+1 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Junk Yard Dog #1
Moderator/Leader of the Pack
Good night Mrs. B, wherever you are!
Long Live the Brotherhood of the Yard!
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Re: Busse SAR 4
[Re: Private Klink]
#273566
04/07/09 09:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,466
VoxHog
Junk Yard Dog
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Junk Yard Dog
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,466 |
Like anything else in life you pay a lot more for that extra little bit of top-shelf performance. Thankfully the Yard brings a lot of value to the table.
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