Here is a crazy long post <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> - mostly about stripping blades, but with some info and pics of some of the nice knife making/grinding/sharpening tools:


From: #147498 - Mon Nov 19 2007 03:28 PM Stripping the coating


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In regards to stripping your blade:

Removing the coating is VERY easy if you use a chemical stripper. There are quite a few brands that will do the job.

I use a gel type from Jasco. You can find a chemical stripper just about anywhere they sell paint: Home Depot, Lowes, Sears, Wal-Mart....

I just use a cheap hobby brush and brush the gel on thick, let sit for about 10-15 minutes till it bubbles and scrape off with a putty knife. Very easy.

If a couple of spots don't come off, put some more stripper on for a few more minutes.

I actually just wash my brush and re-use the brush. If you just brush on what you need, a quart of stripper will probably strip 40 - 60 knives or so (????).


There are lots of posts here, on Swamp Rat Forum, Bladeforums and similar that go into more detail.

So, instead of me retyping a lot of the little details:


See:


Stripping My Howler - Pics of process


Bladeforums - What is the best way to strip Crinkle Coating?


Bladeforums - How does a stripped Swamp Rat knife do?


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Vic had a nice post: Tutorial: Stripping & Polishing Pics

......... But, the pics are gone.


The above posts should give you enough info to get you through the simple stripping process and into sanding.


*** But, you should know that as I keep saying: stripping the coating is the easy part - However, Satin finishing the blade is MUCH more time consuming.

"HARD" is a subjective term. With some practice, I could say it isn't terribly hard, but still time consuming.

The key word I see in your post is: by "Hand"

Are you planning to sand the blade to a nice satin finish literally by hand with sandpaper?

If so, you are talking about many hours of work.

If you think you will strip multiple knives and/or if you do other home projects AND if you are pretty good with hand tools and safety conscious:

Then, I highly recommend ("Considering") investing in a 1"x30" belt sander.
A belt sander is WAY faster than sanding by hand.

Harbor Freight sells this for $29.99



See: Harbor Freight - Belt Sander

Home Depot, Lowes and Sears usually seem to have a Delta brand or similar for close to $40 - $50.


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*** Sanding on sharp knives can be dangerous! Sanding a sharp knife on a fast rotating belt can be more dangerous!


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Most knife makers basically use belt sanders to make knives. But, they do most of the work prior to sharpening the blade and sharpen last!

For the record, most professional knife-makers have much better suited belt-sanders with specialized shaped and sized wheels.

But, the 1"x30" sanders can do a LOT and are MUCH cheaper than the professional 2"x48" or 2"x72" models costing $500 to well over $1000.

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However, for the fun of it, here are some of the toys the Pros get to play with (maybe someday......):

KMG1 with custom mods (KMG stands for Knife Makers Grinder)





















See full link: Caffreyknives.net - KMG with mods


Some people use Bader: Bader grinders

Burr King and many other custom grinders.

Here is a pretty cool "Rotary Platen attachment":

See: BeaumontMetalworks.com - rotary platen

Many of these grinders have variable speed.


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Here are just a couple of links from YouTube that are pretty good:


Blade Grinding on a Burr King

These don't have much to do with knives, but show the KMG grinding and a few tricks (appears to be making a bike frame or something):


KMG - Belt Grinder Demo part 1

KMG - Belt Grinder Demo part 2


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**** This following video may be a great help to some:

Knife Sharpening with a Belt sander by J. Neilson



This video gives some good tips for final blade satin finishes:

Cleaning up the hand-rubbed finish on a blade - J. Neilson


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However, back to belt sanders, regardless of type of belt sander, it takes some practice!!!

Your first few attempts will likely not be very pretty. I am not just saying this. Many knife-makers have suggested people practice on cheap pieces of steel first to get a feel for using a belt sander.


*** Also, don't over-heat the blades. You can mess up the heat treatment - temper.



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Vic had a potentially good suggestion in his Tutorial post in the above link.
...... Assuming you really want a high quality finish down to the little details....

Vic mentions drilling out the rivets.

I have never tried it because I didn't know of a good solution for putting rivets back. I still don't have the details worked out, but I am piecing together how this might be accomplished.

I feel (personally) it would be too big a hassle to send the knife back to Busse to have the scales riveted back on my knife.

And I don't feel it would be worth the effort and hassle for a knife with Res-C handles. At least the Res-C handles have a flat square edge at the ricasso which you can sand up to by hande and get reasonably close.

However, some of the Busse knives have very intricate shapes around the ricasso areas and sometimes at the pommel that would be VERY hard to make look decent unless you remove the scales.

I found a post on bladeforums showing a die/punch used to flare the rivets in a bench vice. I am not sure of the proper type of rivets, but the guy who owned the die/punches said he found some titanium tubing (of the proper dieameter) at a hobby shop that he cut to length and then flared with his die/punches.



[img]http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j183/DWRW/Die-PunchesforBusseRivets.jpg[/img]


[img]http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j183/DWRW/Die-PunchesforBusseRivetsbeingpress.jpg[/img]





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Instead of me typing a bunch more, I am copying and pasting some posts from some older threads:



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Hmmmm. Maybe Vic should start a penetrator tipping service. Given the number of penetrator tips he's put on his own knives, he should be an expert at it by now. Watcha think, Horn Dog?


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I guess I could. It takes longer to unpack and repack the knives than it does to do a little penetrator tip. Its much easier than putting a polished edge on.


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Vic is right. The penetrator tip is a very easy and very fast modification (if you have a belt sander). It would literally take longer to pack the knife back up.

By the time you paid for Priority shipping at about $7 - $9 each way for one knife, you could have paid about 30%-50% towards your own belt sander!

You guys out there who haven't yet picked up a belt sander need to head down to your local hardware store and get one. - Or look up Harbor Freight or similar online.

These little 1"x30" belt sanders are not fancy or expensive tools, but they can do a lot! I think I got mine for about $40.00 or so. Belts are usually about $1.50 - $5.00 depending on grit and type. Most of my local stores only carry about 80, 120 and 150 grits. These grits will do a lot of "general" type grinding and yard tool worthy sharpening.
But, fine quality sharpening and polishing will require much finer grits and belts. There are a few good places online for this such as:

Lee Valley



These sanders are great for customizing and/or sharpening knives (and you will need the right belts for sharpening good knives! ). But, I use mine VERY often just for sharpening yard tools and for many other projects around the house.

Dremels are toys by comparison and Dremels cost a lot more. Dremels are good for "Little" tasks. But, they just don't really handle bigger tasks worth a flip. And rotary tools are hard to work with sometimes to get flat, even, mirror or consistant results. The belt sander is MUCH better for almost any knife or tool modification or sharpening - unless on very small parts on a folder or similar - then Dremel.

Belt Sanders at about $40 - $60 are WELL worth the cheap cost! (to me)

However, if you read many of the "How To" threads over on Bladeforums and Knifeforums, they will usually tell you to practice on some cheap knives first to get the feel for it. I will strongly concure with this as I am sure Vic will as well.
This is not a complicated tool to use by any means, but it does have a learning curve for feel and touch - when you want a nice looking finish.

A penetrator tip really is a very easy modification even without much experience... although, I would still recommend a few minutes of practice on something cheap. Be careful not to over grind the tip as you will mess up your point. And make sure the angles are what you want and mirrored (duplicated in reverse on opposite side). Other than that, pretty simple.

Reprofiling isn't too difficult. But, without some practice, you can end up with some ugly results. It does take a little practice to get the angles right and movement of the knife across the belt smoothly and evenly. After you get the hang of it, it is reasonably easy.

There are other more complicated things to grind on a knife. Grinding the flat areas of a CG knife to get rid of pits, but not mess up the shape of the knife and not damage the handle is a lot trickier than a penetrator tip.

It is good to know the limitations of a belt sander too. They can contour some handles, but that takes a fair amount of practice with a belt and belts are hard to get to make certain contours. Sometimes other tools are needed.


This link has some good belt-sanding/grinding tips: Grinder Tips

I like the last one.


But, I can add a few:

- Wear eye protection

- Don't let the blades get too hot (* I don't personally let my blades get so hot I can't hold them at their hottest spots)

- Watch out for the static build-up! - I have to ground myself as I have very strong and jumpy reflexes - which is not good with a fast rotating tool and a sharp blade! Most of the time I don't have any problems. I guess certain types of weather might influence static more (????). I mention this as better to be prepared than sorry. Again, most of the time, it is not a problem. But, every now and then you might build up some static and get a light to a good shock. I generally get zapped from the metal parts of the sander like the work-top. Being shocked is my least favorite part of this tool. Luckily, it isn't a constant problem. But, somedays when you aren't expecting it....

- Learn how to use the platten for flat grinds - a slack belt will not do a flat grind. I like a lot of parts of knives convexed. But, some things are better flat!

- Listen for popping noises. - Usually means something is wrong with your belt. Turn the grinder off. A slightly damaged belt will often pop very quickly after. A belt popping in your face is very unsettling. A belt popping when you have a sharp blade on it is worse. Platten grinding is noticable rougher on belts.

- Don't breath the dust! It is my understanding that certain woods are toxic and micarta is very unhealthy to toxic. I try to wear a mask. I hate masks, but I hate how my lungs feel after it is filled with crap even more. If the weather is nice, set up your grinder outside and hook up a fan. .... Unfortunately, Vic and I have bad Mosquitos!!! Little Bastards! I hate Houston's humidity, but the mosquitos are even more annoying to me. - Fix those two things and Houston is decent enough. - except I would prefer to have some nice mountains in the scenery and near enough to play in. (sorry - tangents).

- Belt grinders make a mess.... just so you know.


I am sure there are other good tips, but I don't want to make this sound to intimidating or complicating. These belt grinders aren't much more complicated to use than a drill or power saw. I would say it is not as dangerous as a power saw for sure. But, it takes a little more practice because of the much more "Freehand" nature of using a belt sander. And you always have to keep in mind you have a sharp blade in your hand that you don't want to get caught and thrown by a fast rotating tool.

So, again, I recommend some practice on cheap stuff first. - Probably best to practice on some "DULL" stuff first as well. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


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Another post:



I don't know everybodies qualifications for use of tools, so for me to generally state that everybody should get one could probably cause some problems.

But, I personally highly recommend a belt sander to "those capable of using one".

So, as much as I empowered people to get one before. I further empower you to use your own judgement and be responsible for all effects of purchasing, owning and using such tools. Be carefull!!! - especially when grinding sharp knives and similarly sharp tools!!!

If you read certain posts over at Bladeforums and knifeforums, even the professionals talk about an occassional knife going flying!!!

They especially caution about using buffers on sharp blades!!!!!

The loose knit material is apparently notorious for grapping and throwing blades. I have read where many professional knife-makers are very apprehensive about polishing blades with a buffer because of the dangers. So, if anybody decides to tinker with buffing sharp blades, be VERY AWARE of the dangers!
Based on what I have read, I would probably have to recommend "NOT" using a buffer on sharp blades unless you are very experienced.

Other safety tips related to belt-sanders:

Hold the knife carefully.
Don't grind off knuckles.
Wear eye protection.
Wear masks.
Keep loose sleeves and similar clothing away from wheels and belts - as they can catch and quickly grap your arm or similar causing a knife to fling or similar.

Etc. etc.!

Short of having a professional knife-maker teach you, there really isn't much to substitute for lots of practice if making modifications to nice knives.

And just heads up - Pay Attention! - Look for possible issues.

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The platen is crucial for flat grinds. If you are cleaning up a blade with flat sides, you will need to use the platen to "maintain" the flat surface.

Not using the platen - when grinding with a flexed belt seems to be generally referred to as "Slack belt grinding" - creates a convex grind.

The more you push or the looser your belt is the more convex the blade will be.

More convex edges and/or more obtuse grind angles are sometimes better for very thick blades or blades to be used as choppers as the curve can add reinforcing strength to the edge. - personal preference and use (????).

More flat grinds and/or more acute grind angles are often better for smaller knives not heavily used for chopping and intended for sharp cutting.

Most of the typical do-it-yourself belt sander don't truly have much in the way of tightening the belt. The adjustment screw can tighten it some, but usually also controls alignment. So, your ability to tighten much isn't really there much.

So, sometimes you will need to alter the amount of pressure against the belt for different radius curves or flatter grinds on your convexing.

As Vic mentioned, the proper belts are easily the most realistic way to get a proper finish or proper edge. Felt or leather belts with compounds go even further. *Hint: only use one felt or leather belt per given compound. It is generally not considered good to use multiple compounds on one belt as you will get mixed results. Whatever color compound you put on your belt will eventualy turn black and make them hard to tell apart. I heard of a good way to keep them correct is to keep them in a labeled zip-lock bag.

I don't always have to remove the platen to do some slack belt grinding on my sander, but it depends on your platen (and how your platen is attached), size of blade and your technique.

The tables do just tend to be in the way for most anything related to knife modifications. The general concept of the table is to help give you a fixed angle against the platen - say for a 90 degree grind. But, most knife modifications involve a knife with a handle already attached and it is pretty hard to ever get much if any use out of the table. It is just in the way.

But, don't loose or throw away the table either.

Don't use a bench-"Grinder" on knives. The typical Bench grinders typically run at VERY high speeds. The high speeds WILL easily damage a heat treatment and would likely be dangerous with a sharp blade.

I think the typical hollow ground knife goes like this:

1) cut and rough shape blank
2) grind primary grind on belt sander with large prefessional knife-makers sized wheels
3) drill holes for handle
4) heat treat
5) Clean and finish blade after heat treat
6) add and finish handle
7) sharpen

** Notice sharpening is last and heat treat is after heavy grinding. I think most knife-makers seem to use belt sanders with various belts and compounds for sharpening.


Best tip I can think of for beginning with a Belt sander: Go slow!

Also, if you have a Drill press, I found a "Kit" with various sized drum sanding heads at Sears that has been pretty helpful for a lot of concave shaping - such as choils and handles and such. Something to consider.....

I already had a drill press and find lots of home projects I use it for. It can do a lot more precision than a regular drill press and it really helps free up your hands which can be very helpful.
But, a fairly cheap Delta drill press or similar would start at about $100 and go up. I have a counter-top model that I can move around, BUT it is still pretty heavy to move. I have been considering buying or building a table I can roll it around on, but it would need to be able to roll off and back onto the edges of my garage. And then I would need to take up floor-space in my garage.

I have lots of pretty expensive tools as I do lots of home renovation projects. Compressors, table saws, miter saws, nail guns and many other high dollar tools that make my drill press seem like a good deal. Heck, most little 12V, 14.4V and 18V cordless drills cost more than $100. But, not everybody will justify a drill press (?????).


Anyway, again, Good luck!


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