ECF, the mags aren't bad, but not good either, I read ( and found out) that even though they are 8 round mags ( by checkmate) if you put 8 in them, they jam. One of them is working fine, the other got stuck in the gun because the feed plate ( I guess that's what it's called) got caught cause it came out to far, then the whole thing fell apart, I'll still use the other checkmate for the range, but I would never trust it to carry it. Sumo, again, thanks for leading me towards those kimpros, they are highly reviewed and I got them at a great price